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>>> What are your thoughts on a native output mode? <<<
Which option most closely resembles your thoughts on native passthrough?
This poll is closed.
I will not buy a HR10-250 until it can do native passthrough 42 18.75%
Native passthrough would be cool, but I'll survive without it. 157 70.09%
I like my TiVo like I like my Ronco-matic. Set it and forget it! 25 11.16%
Total: 224 votes 100%
  [Edit Poll (moderators only)]


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dr_mal is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 12:37 PM
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dr_mal
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What are your thoughts on a native output mode?

OK, in another thread, one poster says native passthrough is an absolute requirement and he's in the majority. Another poster said native passthrough is not a requirement for people to purchase this box and he's in the majority.

Not trying to pick a fight, just curious how most people on this board feel about the lack of native passthrough mode on the HR10-250.

For those of you not playing along at home, native passthrough would mean that the HR10-250 would output whatever resolution the source material was broadcast in.

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Budget_HT is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 12:48 PM
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Budget_HT
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Definitely nice to have, but not a showstopper for me.

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nazz is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 12:54 PM
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nazz
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It would be nice but wouldn't stop me from the purchase.

The only thing stopping me right now is the price.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 12:57 PM
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dswallow
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Its implementaiton would improve the ease of use of the unit since it would permit the utilization of features on attached display devices without requiring extra steps by the user to manually switch modes. It would not in any way affect those who preferred not to use it.

Ideally it would be implemented in a way the user could block specific resolutions from being chosen since it's possible the attached display supports only a subset. Obviously 720p and 1080i aren't always both supported on a display, and apparently there's some displays that cannot handle 480i, either.

I certainly wouldn't avoid the HR10-250 because it currently doesn't offer such a feature, because I think it's a simple thing to eventually implement in software, and likely will be.

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dr_mal is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 01:10 PM
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dr_mal
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Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
and apparently there's some displays that cannot handle 480i, either.

Oddly enough, my 2000-model-year Samsung can't handle 480i through its DTV component inputs. It has a separate "DVD" component input that only takes 480i.

If (when) I upgrade to a newer HDTV, I may care more about native outputs. Right now, I'm content to just leave it set for 1080i.

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JohnF is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 03:30 PM
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JohnF
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Registered: Feb 2003
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I first commented about this early in the thread.

I would keep 480i to give me more stretch modes to deal with non-transparent logos, tickers, etc. on material being sent at 480i.

I do not believe an automatic feature would work with SD content being sent on a 1080i signal, unless some pretty fancy processing were used. So I think manual intervention would be required in many cases anyway. For that reason, it's desirable but not a major feature for me.

Also, I tweak the stretch modes and PIP to cover up logos, so this is just one more thing to deal with.

Agree it's an added nuisance for family members not interested in tweaking, but at least for me, tweaking to prevent burn-in is of major importance and something to live with.

John

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whsbuss is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 05:03 PM
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whsbuss
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Its implementaiton would improve the ease of use of the unit since it would permit the utilization of features on attached display devices without requiring extra steps by the user to manually switch modes. It would not in any way affect those who preferred not to use it.

Ideally it would be implemented in a way the user could block specific resolutions from being chosen since it's possible the attached display supports only a subset. Obviously 720p and 1080i aren't always both supported on a display, and apparently there's some displays that cannot handle 480i, either.

I certainly wouldn't avoid the HR10-250 because it currently doesn't offer such a feature, because I think it's a simple thing to eventually implement in software, and likely will be.



Ditto.....

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bdlucas is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 07:07 PM
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bdlucas
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Wouldn't particularly help me, because my Philips direct-view CRT only accepts 1080i (and 480p IIRC) on the HD input, and only 480i on the other inputs.

I am however motivated to use 480i for SD material because the TV has a pretty decent scalar (no line twitter, inverse 3:2 pulldown). Guess I'll want to write some macros for my MX-700 that simultaneously change TV input and TiVo mode. Anyone figured out discrete codes (or a simulation thereof using a sequence of keys) for switching the output mode of the HD TiVo?

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bdlucas is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 07:09 PM
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bdlucas
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PS - the poll needs another option - I don't want to "set and forget" it, but nevertheless automatic switching isn't useful (see previous post).

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Robert Simandl is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 07:21 PM
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Robert Simandl
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I didn't vote above because what I need is something like the "Variable 2" mode on my HTL-HD. 480i and 480p get sent to the monitor as 480p. 1080i and 720p get sent to the monitor as 1080i. This would be best for me since my 36XBR400 doesn't do 720p.

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acourvil is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 07:22 PM
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acourvil
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Lack of native pass-through _DID_ keep me from buying a new STB to replace my old Panasonic TU-HDS20. I do consider it a shortfall in the HD Tivo, but the other benefits of the HD Tivo outweigh that shortfall.

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 07:31 PM
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GoodSpike
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Assuming you're talking about what I think you're talking about (ABC shows pass through to your tv at 720, CBS at 1080i) they just added tha feature to the latest drivers/software for the MyHD cards. I tried it but didn't like it.

My set (a Toshiba CRT based RPTV) converts everything to 540 or 1080. So having a native mode is basically a question of whether the TV or the STB will convert to 1080 better. (This is similar to how a PS DVD player is not necessarily better on Toshibas because it will convert DVDs to 540 on its own--it may do just as good a job as a PS DVD player.)

In my case, with the MyHD card and the Toshiba I couldn't tell a significant difference in picture quality between having the MyHD and the Toshiba convert to 1080i. I'll admit I didn't do extensive testing however, but watching the same general material (local news in HD) I couldn't tell a difference.

Native was a slight annoyance in that when a 720 signal was fed, I'd get some screen flicker as the set converted to accepting that signal.

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midas is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:32 PM
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midas
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I'm not sure I understand the last option in the poll. I assume you meant just set it for 1080i or 720p and leave it there. But in reality, having a native mode would also be a form of setting and forgetting.

I personally voted for #2, not a deal breaker for me. But if I had to give up being able to change resolutions via remote and having native modes, I'd choose keeping it the way it is. I like the fact that I can take a 1080i broadcast of an SD program and be able to switch to 480p via the remote. To me, that's a nice feature.

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Agrajag is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:41 PM
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Agrajag
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Re: What are your thoughts on a native output mode?

quote:
Originally posted by dr_mal
OK, in another thread, one poster says native passthrough is an absolute requirement and he's in the majority.


Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that my view was a majoritive view. I said a lot of people desire that feature and this poll is bearing that out clearly. Thank you.

And Midas is correct. The way the poll is written, you could argue that what I want is to set it and forget it. I just want to set it in a way that currently isn't supported.

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sotapoppy is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:52 PM
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sotapoppy
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My Sony down-converts 720P to 480 so native doesn't really appeal to me, unless I'm missing something here.

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scottie is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:53 PM
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scottie
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My set accepts both 720p and 1080i. I don't want to have to remember what format every HD channel is currently broadcasting in so I can "manually" change the receiver to output that format to achieve the best picture quality from my set.

For $1,000 this is a deal breaker for me. It probably would not be at a much lower price level but for now it is.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:57 PM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by sotapoppy
My Sony down-converts 720P to 480 so native doesn't really appeal to me, unless I'm missing something here.
Does your Sony offer any features on 480i or 480p signals that aren't available if it's getting a 1080i signal?

The two potential advantages of this sort of automatic option are (1) making use of the scaling capabilities of your display, which might perform better than the HR10-250 does in that respect, and (2) enabling certain features (usually we're referring to non-linear stretching and zoom capabilities) that exist within the display but only for 480i or 480p signals.

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:57 PM
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GoodSpike
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quote:
Originally posted by scottie
My set accepts both 720p and 1080i. I don't want to have to remember what format every HD channel is currently broadcasting in so I can "manually" change the receiver to output that format to achieve the best picture quality from my set.


Most sets will "accept" both 720 and 1080. Far fewer sets display in both. The question is, will it display in both (or convert to what it displays in)?

Unless your set displays both, I don't really think native is a big issue.

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johnspierce is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 08:57 PM
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johnspierce
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I have a Samsung TS-360 right now which has 3 different "native" modes. Since I am a bit of a purist and always want the image displayed as close as possible to how it was sent, I love it.

That being said, it's not a showstopper. For me it's real simple. I want HD and I want Tivo recording functionality; everything else is secondary.

JP

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dswallow is offline Old Post 04-24-2004 09:00 PM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by GoodSpike
Unless your set displays both, I don't really think native is a big issue.
I don't believe that "native" has to be assumed ot mean "pure native" but simply some method of automatic selection between a subset of designated output formats. There'd probably still be some advantage to you if there was a way regular SD broadcasts could be delivered to your display at 480i or 480p versus HD broadcasts all being delivered at one of 720p or 1080i.

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