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Bananfish is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 05:32 AM
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Bananfish
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If Weeknees was thinking, they would have sold them as a package deal with a non-transferable coupon for a free bracket (when they come out).

"Get an HR10-250 and a Bracket for only $1499! You'll get your HR10-250 now and a Coupon Redeemable for an HR10-250 Bracket that is currently in development."

Then their claims that the extra price was to recover the price of R&D for the bracket would have seemed less hollow. (I'm sure they wouldn't have lost any sleep that very few of the coupons would have been redeemed.)

Plus it would have been fun to follow the Weaknees Bracket Pre-Order thread.

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smak is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 07:06 AM
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smak
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To me, it's just not something you expect from an "authorized" dealer. Would D* approve of an authorized dealer of theirs doing this?

And I agree that the R&D on the bracket excuse was lame.

The owners of weakness wanted better vacations this year would have been an honest answer.

-smak-

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PerfKnee is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 07:26 AM
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PerfKnee
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Registered: Nov 2002
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The main reason that manufacturers have "authorized dealer" programs is to prevent full service dealers from the competition of dealers who skimp on service in order to offer low prices with razor-thin profit margins.

Selling products at a higher-than-normal price actually improves business for the other dealers, so there's no reason the dealers or manufacturers would be against that.

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child molester is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 07:33 AM
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child molester
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do you think weaknees will sell the used ones for $800 or so, that is my price range. I am willing to buy a refurb but i can't afford $999 right now, thanks

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dagap is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 08:37 AM
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dagap
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Wow - how lucky we are to have all these "fair" people here.

Why, I bet they tell their bosses "No thanks, I don't want that raise because I'm already fairly paid". Or "Gee, please give this bonus to Joan, as she does better work than me."

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PerfKnee is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 09:07 AM
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PerfKnee
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Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
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There's a difference between asking your boss for a feasible raise versus an unfeasible raise.

A buyer asking for a HDTivo at MSRP, quick, and without preorder is making an unfeasible request.

A seller asking over MSRP for an HDTivo delivered quick and without preorder is making a feasible request.

The person making feasible requests often gets what they want. The person making unfeasible requests usually gets denied.

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 06:39 PM
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GoodSpike
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Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by PerfKnee
There's a difference between asking your boss for a feasible raise versus an unfeasible raise.

. . .

The person making feasible requests often gets what they want. The person making unfeasible requests usually gets denied.



I'm not sure what you mean by feasible, but here the price was feasible in that they sold out quickly.

The point you responded to was asking basically this: If you have a skill that's in short supply (e.g. maybe an IT skill during the Internet craze) are you going to say to a prospective employer: "I'll just work for what you were paying two years before workers for this position became tight."

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JEbbesen is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 07:08 PM
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JEbbesen
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Registered: Apr 2002
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Free market economy

A vendor can charge whatever they want, the market is supposed to give feedback by either buying or not. Taking a longer view, a segment of the market may become unhappy with the pricing practices (or closing on Sundays) of a vendor and choose to shop elsewhere in the future. At the same time, the controversy over the selling practices of said vendor causes the vendor to become known to a larger segment of the market.

Does the introduction of new members of the market offset the dissatisfied existing members? Something tells me that WN is not losing any sleep over this.

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RayinMaui is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 08:30 PM
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RayinMaui
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But now we won't need a bracket

New Hard Drives to Expand DVR Capacity

Apr 29, 8:29 AM (ET)

By MAY WONG

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - The power of the U.S. cable and satellite TV industries rests on the 85 million households they count as subscribers. But the influence of Hollywood, which controls the entertainment flow, is even more formidable.

That's why new external hard drives that are being designed to expand the capacity of cable or satellite industry digital video recorders will likely have to subscribe to the same copy protection standards dictated by Hollywood.

Maxtor Corp. (MXO), the world's second largest hard-drive maker, announced a new 160-gigabyte external drive this week that will be built as an expansion for cable or satellite set-top boxes.

Seagate Technology (STX), the world's No. 1 hard-drive maker, plans to announce next week a similar offering aimed at capitalizing on the growth of DVRs, now quickly gaining steam as the cable industry embarks on introducing DVR-equipped boxes to its massive customer base.

The offerings by the two hard-drive companies will be tailored to order for their network operator customers, but both say they are certain their new external drives won't become unrestricted portable video storage boxes for TV viewers who want to move their recorded shows onto a computer or to someone else's DVR.

"This will give users more storage while making sure that the spirit of fair use is still in effect," said Rob Tait, Seagate's director of global consumer electronics marketing. "Each cable system is going to have their own approach to digital rights management, and we'll have a program that will work with each."

With digital video recording, TV viewers can forgo videocassettes, easily record their favorite shows on a hard disk instead and watch them whenever they want. It's "Saturday Night Live" on Wednesday or "Nightline" in the morning.

DVR users can even pause live TV to tend to a phone call, or do an instant replay to catch a missed line.

But so far, in heeding the piracy and copying concerns of Hollywood, makers of DVRs are not including the capability to network the gadgets to a PC, and if they are, then there are encryption mechanisms that block the transfer of content to the Internet.

For instance, DVR pioneer TiVo plans to introduce later this year TiVo To Go, which will allow users to transfer their recorded programs onto a PC or laptop - but not onto the Internet.

The ability of users to post any of their recorded TV programs to the Internet has not been a widespread problem as a result, and has been limited to a minority group of technowizards who know how to hack the hardware.

The hard-drive makers don't intend to disrupt that relationship between Hollywood and the existing DVR providers, which they hope will become their customers.

The external drives will essentially be designed to work with only the copy-protected devices authorized by the cable or satellite operators, the companies' officials said.

The Maxtor QuickView Expander, as it has been named, "is not designed so you can take it away from the intended device and plug it into a PC. That's not going to work," said David Barron, Maxtor's director of digital entertainment. "The first important point is that it'll only work with DVRs and set-top boxes where the cable operators have enabled them to work."

Distribution of both the new Seagate and Maxtor external drives will be through cable and satellite operators, which can choose to either lease them to their subscribers, lend it to them for free, or sell it to them via retail stores.

Prices have not been set and will vary among the network operators.

But one thing is clear: Maxtor and Seagate, whose hard drives are already used internally in many DVRs, will gain new streams of revenue from these external DVR drives.

Scientific-Atlanta, which along with Motorola supplies most of the cable industry's set-top boxes, was the first to deploy a cable DVR box with Time Warner Cable in July 2002. Demand has only gotten hotter since and the company has an aggressive lineup of future products, including one for the second half of the year that will work with an external hard drive.

"It's been an avalanche of interest," said Bob Van Orden, vice president of strategy and product planning at Scientific-Atlanta, "and the snowball will just get bigger and bigger."

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Draven X. Byrne is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 10:26 PM
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Draven X. Byrne
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Reading this thread from the beginning has been extremely interesting . . .

In my opinion the only thing Weaknees underestimated was that doing this would stir up people THIS much - Hell - he probably didn't dump them on Ebay because he wanted to give the peeps here (who have supported him almost at the tune of 100% of his business I'm sure) the crack at getting these hard to find TiVo's.

Sure - he could have dumped them on Ebay and made alot more but he probably thought he was being nice to TiVoCommunity.com .

Sure - he made more $$$ but big deal - Suppy & Demand. Instead of slapping him around no one has seemed to look at maybe his motivations to sell them to us first (which is probably all of them) was that he was trying to help the forum folks out who couldn't get these units elsewhere (and to be sure he was helping himself out as well )

DXB

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PRMan is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 01:55 AM
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PRMan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Yorba Linda, CA, USA
Posts: 273

And he seemed very upfront and honest to me. Why do people hate that so much? It seems like everyone would rather he be more dishonest!!!

"He should have sold them on eBay without telling anyone." - I started that one as a joke that people apparently didn't get.

"He should have just said he was taking a better vacation."

"He shouldn't have said anything."

Look, he was upfront and I, for one, appreciate it. I never bought anything from them in the past but I will definitely consider him in the future.

For those who seem to love price-fixing, I would tell you to go to a communist country but there aren't any left, because capitalism is better.

Would I have bought for $1300? No. I think $900 (from VE) is too much. I'll wait until my cost is under $300 (including selling an upgraded SA TiVo and an HTL-HD, currently around $500).

Oops, I'm selling my HTL-HD for $300 on eBay when I just got it for $99 from DirecTV. I feel like such a cad....

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tgibbs is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 03:31 AM
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tgibbs
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Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by pkscout
However, I don't believe gouging 30 people for one product to subsidize the cost of another product is something I really want to support.


"Gouging" is a term I'd apply to things like selling a necessity like water at a high price during a drought, or deceiving a customer about the nature or quality of the item being sold. Neither seems to apply here. Weaknees are offering a scarce product at a premium price for those who find who are willing to pay a bit extra to get theirs early. Does anybody doubt that DirectTV is doing the same, or that their price too will drop by hundreds of dollars in a few months? Personally, I appreciate Weaknees' directness on this matter. I'm not willing to pay the extra $300 to have it now, but I am sure that there are people who are. However, I am likely to be interested in an upgrade down the line, and if selling the few units they can get now at a premium helps them get started on the upgrade, more power to 'em.

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buzzdsm is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 05:05 AM
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buzzdsm
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Here is another example of how I see it.



Say you live in a small town with one gas station. Knowing that people are not going to drive 10 miles away to get gas (wait 4 months in this case) the owner charges 20 cents extra.

Now let's say a few months later another gas station opens right next door and charges the normal price. Of course the original gas station owner matches that price to stay competitive.


Now let me ask you. Which station are you going to go to with all things being equal? You know my answer.

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JEbbesen is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 05:40 AM
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JEbbesen
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quote:
Originally posted by buzzdsm
Here is another example of how I see it.



Say you live in a small town with one gas station. Knowing that people are not going to drive 10 miles away to get gas (wait 4 months in this case) the owner charges 20 cents extra.

Now let's say a few months later another gas station opens right next door and charges the normal price. Of course the original gas station owner matches that price to stay competitive.


Now let me ask you. Which station are you going to go to with all things being equal? You know my answer.



It would depend, if the old station was owned by a local resident and the new station was a corporate owned I would go to the locally owned store if possible. You see it from the eyes of someone who has never owned his own store - nothing wrong with that - it is what it is.

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:24 AM
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GoodSpike
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Your local hardware store charges more because it's the only store in town. Then Wal-Mart moves in and your local store reduces it's prices to compete. Where you going to shop? At the local store or with all the trash that shops at Wal-Mart?

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MisterEd is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:42 AM
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MisterEd
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What REALLY happens is that when Walmart moves in the "local store" reduces it prices then very shortly thereafter goes out of business. I can vouch for that from experience. The "local store" doesn't charge more because it's the only game in town, they charge more because they wouldn't be able to stay in business. Walmart is well known for turning town shopping districts into ghost towns. You're example is very wrong.

quote:
Originally posted by GoodSpike
Your local hardware store charges more because it's the only store in town. Then Wal-Mart moves in and your local store reduces it's prices to compete. Where you going to shop? At the local store or with all the trash that shops at Wal-Mart?

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:48 AM
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GoodSpike
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterEd
What REALLY happens is that when Walmart moves in the "local store" reduces it prices then very shortly thereafter goes out of business. I can vouch for that from experience. The "local store" doesn't charge more because it's the only game in town, they charge more because they wouldn't be able to stay in business. Walmart is well known for turning town shopping districts into ghost towns. You're example is very wrong.


It was just a joke. I hate Walmart. I don't go there (I've checked it out 2-3 times without buying a thing). I apparently don't even know how to spell it. About the only good thing about Walmart is it's improved the class of people at Costco.

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mercurial is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 04:08 PM
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mercurial
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quote:
Originally posted by buzzdsm
Here is another example of how I see it.

Say you live in a small town with one gas station. Knowing that people are not going to drive 10 miles away to get gas (wait 4 months in this case) the owner charges 20 cents extra.
.



I'd agree with the other that this is a bad example for one reason. If you assume the small local store is independently owned and operated, then likely they aren't going to get as good a wholesale rate on their good as a bigger chain of stores that has more bargaining power. On top of that, if you really are out-of-the-way, then the costs of the goods to this hypothetical store will be higher due to higher delivery charges.

Then what happens, as others have mentioned, is a large national or regional chain moves in with their better wholesale rates and the other store has to slash prices to compete, which destroys their margin, and shortly there after they go out of business.

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aaronwt is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:49 PM
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aaronwt
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quote:
Originally posted by GoodSpike
It was just a joke. I hate Walmart. I don't go there (I've checked it out 2-3 times without buying a thing). I apparently don't even know how to spell it. About the only good thing about Walmart is it's improved the class of people at Costco.


Most people I know do at least some shopping at Walmart. And these are people making anywhere from 70K to 200K a year. They would do more but it is always so crowded. The best time seems to be after midnight to avoid the crowds.

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buzzdsm is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:52 PM
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buzzdsm
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I hate Wal-Mart. Every Wal-Mart I've ever been in has been a hole and the employees look like they just got out of prison. Maybe it's just a midwest thing but Target is 10x better.

I'd rather shop at K-Mart and that's pretty bad.

There must not be too many of us though since they are always packed.

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