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TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo
>>> iTunes 4.5 ... <<<

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bedelman is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 08:06 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

iTunes isn't what broadcasts the music to the TiVo. TiVo Desktop is what handles the computer side. You need to identify the location of your music folder to TiVo Desktop.

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Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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Stuckeyboss is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 09:25 AM
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Stuckeyboss
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Registered: Apr 2003
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TiVoBill thank you for the prompt reply. I have since upgraded, and all is well

My take on the iTunes Music Store and it not operating with TiVo HMO:

It's time to take this battle to Apple.

It's their DRM, it's their restrictions, let's start knocking on their door. While I think TiVo 'could' have made forward progress on supporting non-protected AAC, and WMA, I can understand why they would not. I wouldn't want to explain why HMO works with these AAC files, but not those over there to my parents. It's much easier from a support standpoint to just deal with the most ubiquitous format (I'm not interested in technical discussion as JavaHMO has provided a noble proof-of-concept of what can be accomplished).

Apple NEEDS to license FairPlay, or the iTunes Music Store and the ultimately the iPod will suffer the same fate as the Mac (to quote Seinfeld - 'not that there's anything wrong with that' - I just doubt that's what they intend as business model).

Whew - well, that's my 2 cents.

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haikf is offline Old Post 05-09-2004 11:52 PM
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haikf
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FYI, ElGato and their EyeHome product supports AAC encrypted and non encrypted files. So reading AAC from ITMS is NOT limited to iPod and iTunes. I do not understand why Tivo is not able to get the same deal as ElGato.

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TiVoBill is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 01:59 AM
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TiVoBill
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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Alviso, CA
Posts: 888

quote:
Originally posted by haikf
FYI, ElGato and their EyeHome product supports AAC encrypted and non encrypted files. So reading AAC from ITMS is NOT limited to iPod and iTunes. I do not understand why Tivo is not able to get the same deal as ElGato.


I'm not familiar with their product, but according to their website, they can't play the protected files:

Q: What sound formats can EyeHome play back?

A: EyeHome can play back files located in the iTunes library, namely AIFF, MPEG-1 layers 1, 2 and 3 (MP3), WAV and (unprotected) AAC files. iTunes Music Store tracks are currently not supported. This functionality will likely be added in a future software update.

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?fil...cts_eyehome_faq

I did a quick search on Google and it looks like they added unofficial support for playing protected AAC files as some point but Apple corrected that in iTunes 4.5.

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Last edited by TiVoBill on 05-10-2004 at 02:13 AM

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futerfas is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 02:43 AM
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futerfas
Advanced Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: allentown, pa
Posts: 973

If you want to play your iTMS music on TiVo, currently with the new version of itunes, theres 2 ways to do it.

1. Burn a cd and rip it as an mp3. This will, however, cause you to loose quality. I heard of some way to make a cd image without burning the cd, and rip it from that, but I'm not sure how it works.

2. The second way requires a mac and iMovie 4. Import your iTMS music into iMovie. Then go to file, share. Hit the quicktime button and choose compress movie for: Expert settings, and hit share. Then choose Music to AIFF. One you save it as an AIFF, it removes the DRM and you can convert it to mp3.

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Stuckeyboss is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 05:48 AM
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Stuckeyboss
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Thank you for the suggestions Futerfas, but in my opinion if you have to re-encode music than you've lost the battle. I experimented with the AAC->CD->Mp3 conversion early on, but found the artifacting to be too much.

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nathos is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 10:03 AM
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nathos
TiVoholic :)

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 23

Scattered reports I've read, including some on http://xlr8yourmac.com state that playing iTunes Music Store files does indeed still work with iTunes 4.5 & the eyeHome.

My guess is that the eyeHome server software uses QuickTime to authorize the file & sends an unencrypted MP3 or AAC stream to the eyeHome unit. It seems that a future version of TiVo Desktop should be able to do the same (with some work of course )

This would, however, require a bit more CPU time on the Desktop side of things to do the transcoding in realtime. On the plus side, if the Desktop software transcodes from AAC to MP3, AAC playback support wouldn't need to be added to the TiVo Series2 units themselves, since they would just be playing MP3 streams.

C'mon TiVo....I know it'd be a fair amount of work, but the bragging rights would be pretty sweet! Plus I'd plunk down the cash for HMO on the spot

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TiVoBill is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 10:17 AM
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TiVoBill
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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Alviso, CA
Posts: 888

quote:
Originally posted by nathos
C'mon TiVo....I know it'd be a fair amount of work, but the bragging rights would be pretty sweet! Plus I'd plunk down the cash for HMO on the spot


Trust us.. we would love to play iTunes Music Store content on TiVo DVRs, but for now Apple doesn't want third party apps/hardware playing the songs (as iTunes 4.5 reinforces). Unlike many of the companies that offered "unofficial" support we need to do things above board. I actually have a large amount of music purchased from iTMS so I want it as bad as everybody else, but not going to happen unless something changes on the licensing side.

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nathos is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 10:35 AM
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nathos
TiVoholic :)

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 23

I know...you're right. Just thinking positively

Even if you're technical wizards made it work, Apple probably wouldn't be too happy about you circumventing their protection scheme.

Hope it all works out someday though!

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tboydsto is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 11:15 PM
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tboydsto
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quote:
Originally posted by TiVoBill
Trust us.. we would love to play iTunes Music Store content on TiVo DVRs, but for now Apple doesn't want third party apps/hardware playing the songs (as iTunes 4.5 reinforces).


This sucks TiVoBill, and is the first time I have heard the real reason why iTunes is not supported.

I would suggest that everyone goto http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html and explain to Apple the need to support TiVo.


Oye!

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bedelman is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 11:15 PM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

How about just support for unprotected AAC files to start? I'd love to save some disk space (AAC files are smaller than MP3 files for the same sound quality). And AAC is an "open" standard created by many of the same folks that created MP3...

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Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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TiVoBill is offline Old Post 05-10-2004 11:24 PM
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TiVoBill
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Location: Alviso, CA
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
How about just support for unprotected AAC files to start? I'd love to save some disk space (AAC files are smaller than MP3 files for the same sound quality). And AAC is an "open" standard created by many of the same folks that created MP3...


It's certianly possible that we might support regular AAC files as some point, but I'd imagine the number of people using that format is pretty small and the potential confusion about why we can play some AAC files and not other AAC files might be too great.

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tboydsto is offline Old Post 05-11-2004 08:06 AM
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tboydsto
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Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by TiVoBill
It's certainly possible that we might support regular AAC files as some point, but I'd imagine the number of people using that format is pretty small and the potential confusion about why we can play some AAC files and not other AAC files might be too great.


I can understand this point. There are plenty of people who have large MP3 collections out there. I have observed that most of these people are anti-DRM, have huge libraries of downloaded music, and don't feel the need to convert the music. Hey that is great for them and TiVo has recognized that.

While there are probably some users who are jumping from MP3 to DRMed technologies, I suspect the majority of new iTunes users don't know about these issues. Heck, have you seen who Apple is targeting...the dang mini is in all the womens mags...most of these folks don't care about AAC, MP3, DRM, etc. Instead they want their stuff to work...and HMO won't in its default mode! For example, my wife gets upset that she can't play her ripped album unless I change the settings around in iTunes. I suspect that TiVo will see more of this as time goes on.

All I am saying that the situation is already confusing. In fact, it is MORE confusing for new iTunes users that AAC is not supported at all, especially when it is the default. When new users rip an album and it does not work with HMO, they are asking themselves why? Because TiVo says its too confusing to support AAC and DRMed AAC...that is nonsense! Instead, if HMO at least supported plain AAC, people would be able to play their ripped albums. When purchased music did not show up, they could then reason that it has something to do with the licensing of DRM on multiple machines.

Oh well, just a another nickle in the bucket....

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nathos is offline Old Post 05-11-2004 08:17 AM
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nathos
TiVoholic :)

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 23

quote:
All I am saying that the situation is already confusing. In fact, it is MORE confusing for new iTunes users that AAC is not supported at all, especially when it is the default. When new users rip an album and it does not work with HMO, they are asking themselves why? Because TiVo says its too confusing to support AAC and DRMed AAC...that is nonsense! Instead, if HMO at least supported plain AAC, people would be able to play their ripped albums. When purchased music did not show up, they could then reason that it has something to do with the licensing of DRM on multiple machines.


Not to mention that re-encoding iTunes Music Store files to unencrypted AAC does sound a bit better than transcoding to MP3. I've found that attempting to move between different compressed formats creates downright lousy-sounding files

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Dennis Wilkinson is offline Old Post 05-11-2004 11:25 PM
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Dennis Wilkinson
Advanced Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: East Freetown, MA
Posts: 917

quote:
Originally posted by nathos
Not to mention that re-encoding iTunes Music Store files to unencrypted AAC does sound a bit better than transcoding to MP3. I've found that attempting to move between different compressed formats creates downright lousy-sounding files


If you're re-encoding, it's not likely to matter that you're going from (ITMS-compressed-and-DRMed) AAC to (iTunes-encoded) AAC. The uncompressed AAC audio isn't identical to the actual uncompressed audio that was encoded the first time, and you're running it through a different encoder than the purportedly-higher-quality one used by the store itself, so you're still going to introduce new artifacts.

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EricScott is offline Old Post 05-15-2004 12:10 AM
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EricScott
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Registered: Jan 2002
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Posts: 98

tboydsto - completely agree with you. I am not a big user of the ITMS but ever since I started using iTunes, I've been ripping everything in AAC. It's really frustrating that I can't play these tracks on my Tivo. I used to use Media Center 9 (before iTunes came out) and they were able to get AAC files to play on the Tivo via their media server. I just got a new PC and don't feel like dealing with the compatability issues b/t MC9 and iTunes and prefer just having one program do all the work.

please tivo - give us support for unprotected AAC's.

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stubal is offline Old Post 05-15-2004 05:19 AM
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stubal
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ditto

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KermitTheFrog is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:22 PM
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KermitTheFrog
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Registered: Mar 2000
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Posts: 197

This is very intersting indeed.

Apple iTunes DOM SDK for Windows Released

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Kelly N. is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:33 PM
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Kelly N.
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Ok....First of all, please excuse my ignorance about all of this. I just got Tivo, and I don't know much about it yet. However, I'm interested in the music aspect of it and how mp3's are used with the service. I am a Mac person also, and I was just hoping someone could explain to me the general idea of utilizing Tivo, I Tunes, and mp3's all together (and if there are any other things I could do with them).....?

Thanks in advance for the info.!

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bedelman is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 09:22 PM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

You can purchase an add-on named Home Media Option (or HMO) for your TiVo. The cost is $99 for the first TiVo and $49 for each successive unit. There's a free trial currently running, so you have that available to you for now.

You will need to have both your TiVo and your computer connected to the same network to use the Music and Photos features in HMO.

You install an application on your computer (or computers) named TiVo Desktop. The application is available at http://www.tivo.com/desktop

TiVo Desktop on the Macintosh works with both iTunes and iPhoto and it makes your music and photos available to be viewed on the TiVo. You can also drag Internet radio stations in iTunes into a play list which makes them available to the TiVo as well.

TiVo Desktop by itself only supports MP3 files. If you have music encoded as AAC or have iTunes Music Store songs (which are protected AAC files), you cannot play them using HMO.

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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