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>>> Ebay Tivo's.....make me sick to my stomach. <<<

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danielhart is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 03:46 AM
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danielhart
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 275

I sold one of my two units on ebay. I did a paid in full preorder back in February with GG. I didn't learn about preordering on this forum. I had no intention of selling either of them, but when I got my two and saw the demand and what those with cash and impatience were willing to pay, I almost felt like I would be throwing away good money not to sell the damn thing. I was very clear in my ad about what I was doing, here is a cut and paste from my description:

>>Secondary Subject line : Can't wait? Got the cash? I'll gouge you!

Item Description: Up for bid is the long awaited brand new Hughes DirectTV HR10-250 High Definition Satellite and Over the Air Receiver/Digital Video Recorder. This box is nearly impossible to get your hands on right now. There are long waiting lists to purchase this box at this time. I preordered and prepaid for 2 of these units back in mid-February, and now I am willing to sell one of them to you at a price far greater than what I paid for it. You will probably be able to get one of these at the regular price ($999.00) in about a month or two, might take longer. But if you "gotta have it now," and have money to burn, and are okay with the fact that I am opportunistically gouging the sh*t out of you, than I am your man.

This is not a phony auction. It's the real deal. I am just trying to make some quick cash on a high-demand item while I can, and I want to be straight up about that. Actually, my Buy it Now price is less than what others are selling these units for on Ebay, scary as that sounds. <<

I put it up at flat 1499.00 buy it now only. Sold in twenty minutes. Although I had no designs on selling it to a member of this forum, it so happened that it was purchased by one. The buyer thanked me for listing at a "reasonable" buy it now price. He was a pleasure to deal with. He got his HD Tivo on Monday. Buyer happy, seller happy. What's the problem with that?

Also, remember. I paid for these things in full 2.5 months ago. I played the waiting game. I made all the phone calls to GG to make sure I got em the second they came in. I also could have two Tivo's crankin in my house right now, instead I decided it was wiser financially to just have one until they become widely available and at cheaper price. And I know I could have sold it for more, someone had just paid 2K for one when I listed mine. So if anything, my action may be helping drive the ebay price down - 1500 seems to be about the going rate right now.

I think a poll may be in order!

daniel

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dswallow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 03:48 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by GoodSpike
Yes, I'm sure the dealers offered special prices to us because they liked us so much.

Considering the only dealer who offered us anything but MSRP or higher, and specifically to *us* in the forum, is Value Electronics, yes, they offered us special pricing because they liked us. Other dealers who offered less than MSRP only did so to price match. Though I think there had been one that started offering it $50 less than MSRP, though that didn't last very long. Even now Value Electronics offers a $50 gift certificate to forum members buying at the DirecTV-mandated price.

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 03:49 AM
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GoodSpike
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 8396

quote:
Originally posted by danielhart
II think a poll may be in order!

daniel



There already was a poll on one dealer selling for $1,300.00, and last I looked (which was some time ago) most the members here understood basic economics.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...light=economics

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gamecox86 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 04:43 AM
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gamecox86
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Considering the only dealer who offered us anything but MSRP or higher, and specifically to *us* in the forum, is Value Electronics, yes, they offered us special pricing because they liked us. Other dealers who offered less than MSRP only did so to price match. Though I think there had been one that started offering it $50 less than MSRP, though that didn't last very long. Even now Value Electronics offers a $50 gift certificate to forum members buying at the DirecTV-mandated price.


C'mon Doug, even you've got to admit that's crap. VE likes us? Give me a break. The only reason VE offers a discount is to drum up more business. No one runs a business to make friends. The idea is to offer incentives so that you get the business that might go (have gone) elsewhere.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 04:55 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by gamecox86
C'mon Doug, even you've got to admit that's crap. VE likes us? Give me a break. The only reason VE offers a discount is to drum up more business. No one runs a business to make friends. The idea is to offer incentives so that you get the business that might go (have gone) elsewhere.
You never said that had to be the *only* reason. Of course they're a business and it's usually not good practice to sell product at a loss or at a really slim margin. But there really was no reason to discount a product that had been in such high demand. Anyone who has had HD for the last year and visited this forum regularly certainly knew a lot of people were anticipating such a TiVo-based HD DVR.

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gamecox86 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 05:03 AM
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gamecox86
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
You never said that had to be the *only* reason. Of course they're a business and it's usually not good practice to sell product at a loss or at a really slim margin. But there really was no reason to discount a product that had been in such high demand. Anyone who has had HD for the last year and visited this forum regularly certainly knew a lot of people were anticipating such a TiVo-based HD DVR.


But how many more people were lured into orders with VE because of the price break? That is certainly an acceptable business strategy. Without the discount he probably wouldn't have half the orders he has because folks would have been content just to go to some of the other retailers.

If he likes us so much why did he require a matching deposit to get the discount and why is he holding on to the deposits with such a tight fist? Seems like he would have a cancel at anytime before shipment policy (like just about everyone else that's selling these things) ... given that he likes us so much!

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dswallow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 05:15 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by gamecox86
But how many more people were lured into orders with VE because of the price break? That is certainly an acceptable business strategy. Without the discount he probably wouldn't have half the orders he has because folks would have been content just to go to some of the other retailers.

If he likes us so much why did he require a matching deposit to get the discount and why is he holding on to the deposits with such a tight fist? Seems like he would have a cancel at anytime before shipment policy (like just about everyone else that's selling these things) ... given that he likes us so much!

Who knows why he really chose to structure the deal the way he did. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for people to make a financial commitment if they want a discount. But everyone is free to get that money back just by taking delivery of a unit from another vendor first.

There is some "housekeeping" associated with dealing with orders; to just let people cancel on a whim means the vendor is out of the fees on the original credit card charge, labor costs associated with processing the order, responding to calls, et. al. But he's still out those fees if you get the unit somewhere else and cancel per the terms of the agreement. However it avoids people canceling when they're just thinking they can get it elsewhere, or just change their mind, or just were playing around and didn't really want it. And it probably gives pause to some who might be pushing themselves financially to pay up to $100 more elsewhere versus just waiting.

Most of the other dealers taking deposits and allowing cancellations took a much more substantial deposit, didn't they? 50% up to 100% in advance.

And any dealer who took no deposit for an order allows you to cancel with no penalty. Even Value Electronics.

Many people when discovering a new place they could pre-order inquired about the refund policy and learned the terms of it before deciding if they wanted to place an order. Value Electronic's refund policy was in always presented in pretty large type, disclosed fully in advance, too.

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dmk1974 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 05:28 AM
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dmk1974
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quote:
Originally posted by joegarrett
I think this is it........

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...ota#post1923907




Interesting thread today guys

Anyway, I'm the one who posted that I am having trouble picking up WGN-DT. I am 40 miles out of Chicago and I never had an issue with my E-86 nor TS360 boxes. I don't need to re-hash my issues from the other threads, but I definitley did not buy this box with the intent to put it up on ebay for a profit. I've been waiting for this friggin box for over a year, got a good deal pre-ordering it from Tweeter, and never intended to use this box for anything but viewing and recording bliss on my 57" tv.

For the price of this unit, it SHOULD be able to get my channels I need. What, am I really supposed to have to spend more money on a pre-amp or monkey around with my setup which has no issues with the other boxes? I decided to either a) return the box, bet my money back, and wait until later batches come out that maybe are better or b) put it up on ebay like everyone else. I don't see why I am wrong for putting it up instead of returning the unit and then having to wait until at least the next batches come out anyway for a replacement. If someone is happy paying a high amount for it, then two of us are happy. Actually, I'd rather have a box that WORKS than a cash profit. You can all check my other posts in the various pre-order threads to know I've been aching for this box for a while.

I don't see why any of us, or at least those of us who are truly selling for reasons other then "just to make a buck", should be harshly criticized for selling this hot item for a premium if it's not to our satisfaction.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 05:32 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by dmk1974
I don't see why any of us, or at least those of us who are truly selling for reasons other then "just to make a buck", should be harshly criticized for selling this hot item for a premium if it's not to our satisfaction.
I'm not sure anyone is criticizing people in your position. Though what would you do if the vendor offered to take it back for a full refund?

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gamecox86 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 06:05 AM
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gamecox86
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Who knows why he really chose to structure the deal the way he did. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for people to make a financial commitment if they want a discount. But everyone is free to get that money back just by taking delivery of a unit from another vendor first.

There is some "housekeeping" associated with dealing with orders; to just let people cancel on a whim means the vendor is out of the fees on the original credit card charge, labor costs associated with processing the order, responding to calls, et. al. But he's still out those fees if you get the unit somewhere else and cancel per the terms of the agreement. However it avoids people canceling when they're just thinking they can get it elsewhere, or just change their mind, or just were playing around and didn't really want it. And it probably gives pause to some who might be pushing themselves financially to pay up to $100 more elsewhere versus just waiting.

Most of the other dealers taking deposits and allowing cancellations took a much more substantial deposit, didn't they? 50% up to 100% in advance.

And any dealer who took no deposit for an order allows you to cancel with no penalty. Even Value Electronics.

Many people when discovering a new place they could pre-order inquired about the refund policy and learned the terms of it before deciding if they wanted to place an order. Value Electronic's refund policy was in always presented in pretty large type, disclosed fully in advance, too.



All good business reasons, but nothing in there (or in anything he's done) that says he likes us. He made decisions that he thought would improve his bottom dollar. Plain and simple.

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dmk1974 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 06:30 AM
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dmk1974
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
I'm not sure anyone is criticizing people in your position. Though what would you do if the vendor offered to take it back for a full refund?


I am sure I could return it for a full refund to the Tweeter store I bought it from. That was definitely an option I considered. I just didn't see any harm in throwing it up on ebay for a short 1-day auction first at $1500 to see if I got any nibbles. If nobody wanted it, so be it...I'm only out $6-$7 for the listing fee then. I would then take it back to the Tweeter. Since someone obviously does want it at that price, it seems to me it's the smarter path to take a shot at considering the demand.

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lark is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 08:37 AM
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lark
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It's really interesting how this thread is turning out, because it's a virtual carbon copy of so many others I've seen before, just in a completely different context.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's basically the ticket scalping debate. Some think it's distastesful and wouldn't do it. Those who do, cite the hard work they used to get the tickets, the so-called "american way," quote economics principles, and can't really understand what the people who see it the other way are talking about.

Best of luck to all the HD tivo scalpers, just don't be hypocrical and complain about other forms of scalping when you're the scalpee!

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TivoGuyinDallas is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:22 AM
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TivoGuyinDallas
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Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Morg111
As your example of a trade makes no sense because that is not how the stock is distributed when selling short. I can take an educated guess that you are nothing but an arrogant little boy.

This is my last post on this thread for I have received several private messages from well respected members telling me not to bother with you. So have fun continuing to embarrass yourself with your last words.



How does my example make no sense?
That is exactly how stock is loaned out (Short sales are not distributed Einstein). Do you think you are selling short and no one is lending it to you? Do you think your primebroker just creates shares? Yes, you probably do think that. My guess is your hedge fund is about as successful as your rantings here. Glad I am not a LP. EXPLAIN to me your observations about stock being 'distributed'. Short sales are not 'distributed'. You can call me a little boy but you should be able to at least answer like a man as I have queried you.

'This is my last post'

That is no surprise. One often runs from situations they cannot win especially those they have created on their own.



As a final note, my HD TIVO was not from Robert at VE but so what if it was. You pay or you don't.


Regarding your post about several private messages from respected members blah blah blah, I think you are just making that up. In addition, someone you respect may not be respected by others. Multiple posts don't necessarily equate respect assuming you are telling the truth.

Bottom line is you are a hypocrite.

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llogan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:48 AM
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llogan
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quote:
Originally posted by GoodSpike
I'm GoodSpike, and I could care less if you approve of this message.

I agree with the arguments you've made but a minor correction to your sig, it should be that you 'could not' care less, as in you could not possibly care less what people think than the little you think of their opinions to begin with.

Stating that you could care less implies you currently 'care', which most people who say 'could care less' actually don't.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:49 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by llogan
I agree with the arguments you've made but a minor correction to your sig, it should be that you 'could not' care less, as in you could not possibly care less what people think.

Stating that you could care less implies you currently 'care', which most people who say 'could care less' actually don't.


Don't spoil it for me! I was sure he cared.

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llogan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:50 AM
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llogan
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Jesus Doug, what the hell are you still doing up?

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1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
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litzdog911 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by llogan
Jesus Doug, what the hell are you still doing up?


The man never sleeps!

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dswallow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by llogan
Jesus Doug, what the hell are you still doing up?
I just finished watching NCIS.

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llogan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:57 AM
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Ah, NCIS, can't remember last time I watched it....I have to say the three things I miss most about being at home right now.....using my Tivo, watching my plasma (obviously both could be accomplished simultaneously) and not hosting poker tournaments, though I've managed to convince my coworkers to play a few nights a week in my hotel room (made 120 tonight, woohoo, paying for that HD Tivo one game at a time)

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12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 06:12 PM
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GoodSpike
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Location: Seattle, WA
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quote:
Originally posted by llogan
I agree with the arguments you've made but a minor correction to your sig, it should be that you 'could not' care less, as in you could not possibly care less what people think than the little you think of their opinions to begin with..


Actually, either way is proper (common usage now) and it's that way for a particular reason related to a thread from a long time ago.

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