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>>> Ebay Tivo's.....make me sick to my stomach. <<<

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dirtypacman is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 06:23 PM
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dirtypacman
Best in Class

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2729

Supply and Demand

I really don't understand the OP's point.

I do agree that most on TC COmmunity post here for fun and and to help others. So certainly trying to take advantage of this forum as a place to sell an overpriced item is one thing to actually list the item overpriced if it sells at the price is perfectly fine.

As another member posted we all may have paid at one time or another to be the first on our block!

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llogan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 07:35 PM
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llogan
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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reston, VA (Washington DC)
Posts: 607

quote:
Originally posted by GoodSpike
Actually, either way is proper (common usage now) and it's that way for a particular reason related to a thread from a long time ago.
Citing common usage, in my opinion only (although obviously I wish it weren't only my opinion ), is a weak excuse for using a senseless phrase ('could care less' just isn't the correct meaning, even if I know what you mean when you say it). Getting to a point where we dilute the English language and excuse it by saying well it's now common usage is just abominable IMHO.

However, pointing out that it originated from another thread is perfectly valid, so I appreciate you making the reference. Perhaps the originating thread merits mention so that we could catch the intended humor, if there was intended to be some.

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 07:41 PM
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GoodSpike
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 8396

quote:
Originally posted by llogan
However, pointing out that it originated from another thread is perfectly valid, so I appreciate you making the reference. Perhaps the originating thread merits mention so that we could catch the intended humor, if there was intended to be some.


Let's just say the person in the prior thread didn't point out the could/couldn't distinction as politely as you did and leave it at that. At this point it's not so much humor as tradition (my prior sig. was more directly aimed at that person--who is now gone).

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llogan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 07:55 PM
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llogan
Advanced Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reston, VA (Washington DC)
Posts: 607

guess no one caught my subjunctive mood test "if there were intended to be some"

correcting my own posts now

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

Last edited by llogan on 05-05-2004 at 08:12 PM

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 08:35 PM
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BrettStah
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 3104

Well, here are my 4 cents...

First 2 cents: I agree with the original poster's sentiments to a certain exent for those who did the VE pre-order, which was targeted to forum members with a price break at the time.

Last 2 cents: For every other pre-order (weaknees, etc.), or sales at MSRP, I don't agree at all with the original poster's argument.

To relate to the concert tickets... if I get a special deal from a friend for tickets, I shouldn't take them if I'm just going to re-sell them for a profit. But if I order tickets, don't get a special price-break on them, and want to sell them to the highest bidder, there's nothing wrong with that at all.

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Crash_Corrigan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 09:57 PM
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Crash_Corrigan
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Registered: Feb 2004
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Ticket scalping may be legal in some municipalities, but in other municipalities, it's a crime.

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lark is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 10:15 PM
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lark
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Registered: Nov 2002
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Posts: 93

"To relate to the concert tickets... if I get a special deal from a friend for tickets, I shouldn't take them if I'm just going to re-sell them for a profit. But if I order tickets, don't get a special price-break on them, and want to sell them to the highest bidder, there's nothing wrong with that at all."

Just so you understand that there are many out there who don't agree with you. I devote considerable effort to having learned many tricks of the trade to get tickets for sporting events and concerts and stuff, and I have never scalped a ticket because it's just something I refuse to do. I do not care for professional ticket scalpers, and I want no part of being like them. I try to sell any extras to people I know want to go to the show and would do the same in return, and as a result, I've virtually never paid more for a ticket and I've never been shut out of an event I wanted to go to, except for a game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals, and that was only because I didn't want to pay more than face value.

Suppose you were part of a community just like this one, except it was devoted to Dave Mathews fans. (Just making this up, I really don't know anything about Dave Mathews or his fans.) He is having a concert at a small venue in New York, and demand is incredible. You've been on the forum for a couple of years speculating about his new albums, concert info, etc., and everyone is convinced he's going to play some great old rarities at this show that never get played. When tickets come out, you need four, but you buy 8 because you figured out how to get them and you know they will sell for a fortune. Others in the Dave Mathews community board got shut out, because they sold out in 15 minutes. You didn't necessarily rely on any info from folks on the message board to get the tickets, but they are your "friends" of sorts, sharing a similar love of something that brings them together. Any problem with you buying 8 and reselling 4 at a profit? Well, that's up to you. Many would say, "the promoter sets the ticket limits, not me," and "this is the american way." Many would be on my side of the fence. Neither side is unreasonable; it's a personal choice about what's important to you.

One thing that's interesting about this debate is that in the concert ticket area, attitudes are often dramatically different depending on which band you're talking about. Pearl Jam, for example, has a great fan community that shares info and face-value tickets. The Rolling Stones have many "whatever I can get" fans. Just an observation for an interesting thread. The tivo community forum seems to be somewhere in between!

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joegarrett is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 10:17 PM
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joegarrett
DTiVo Junkie

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Dallas
Posts: 155

Nicely put....

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Morg111 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 10:28 PM
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Morg111
Member

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 91

Thats all I was trying to say. Some individuals lost sight of the topic and became incredibly insulting and stepped way outside the lines of acceptable posting. Those types of attitudes are unfortunate and I almost got sucked in myself. For that I am sorry. I care very much about this hobby and love (for the most part) the idea of this forum. I'm just the type that if I had an extra, I'd send a member that had been posting over the many months of waiting the unit for my cost.


M.

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danielhart is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 10:43 PM
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danielhart
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 275

quote:
Originally posted by Morg111
Thats all I was trying to say. Some individuals lost sight of the topic and became incredibly insulting and stepped way outside the lines of acceptable posting. Those types of attitudes are unfortunate and I almost got sucked in myself. For that I am sorry. I care very much about this hobby and love (for the most part) the idea of this forum. I'm just the type that if I had an extra, I'd send a member that had been posting over the many months of waiting the unit for my cost.


M.



That's all well and good until you go back and read your post that started off this topic, the one where you called people selling the HR10-250 "two-bit, sleazy middlemen" and using the forum to "try and rip people off."

respectfully

daniel, aka two bit sleazy middleman

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Continuum37 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:00 PM
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Continuum37
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 917

I have tried to cancel my preorder with VE, or sell it for my deposit to another forum member, to no avail, since it's not allowed by Robert. My box is in the next shipment, so you can bet as soon as I get the tracking number, it's going to go on ebay.

If I make a profit, great. There was no guarantee way back that preorders would be profitable, and in fact it could have been that DTV would offer them for 499 this month, with all of us stuck paying double.

That's life, so just because some people got lucky, and are selling them on ebay TO A WILLING BUYER, what is the big deal. I thought we lived in a capitalism based country, not under socialism?

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Morg111 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:05 PM
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Morg111
Member

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 91

quote:
That's all well and good until you go back and read your post that started off this topic, the one where you called people selling the HR10-250 "two-bit, sleazy middlemen" and using the forum to "try and rip people off."



If you go back and re-read my initial post, I said if any "members" were turning them around and selling them on ebay. You have just joined this forum as of the week the Tivos came out. Making you someone who was using this forum as a place to advertise, nothing more. Therefore you are not a two-bit sleazy middleman, you are just someone taking advantage of a great source market.

M.

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BigHat is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:13 PM
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BigHat
Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Arlington VA
Posts: 43

Learn to spell

quote:
Originally posted by gamecox86
Now that is an Enane comment if I ever saw one!


Insults and wise ass remarks are much less effective when the writer doesn't have the intellect to know how to properly spell INANE.

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smith13 is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:18 PM
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smith13
Member

Registered: Apr 2004
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Hey Morg111 if you don't like it,don't buy it.

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NJChris is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:19 PM
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NJChris
Moogs!

Registered: May 2001
Location: Pompton Lakes, NJ USA
Posts: 878

STILL nobody addressed my double standard comment.

Why is it ok for people to pre-order from 4 or more places and take up "spots" from other people when they have every intention of cancelling the orders after they get one of them?

Why is it ok to take up those places in line in multiple pre-orders, but it's not ok for someone to pre-order and sell it for profit? I really don't care if either is done even though it may annoy me some. I won't pass judgement on someone over a Tivo!!!

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:21 PM
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BrettStah
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 3104

quote:
Originally posted by lark
Just so you understand that there are many out there who don't agree with you.
Oh, I understand, and ticket scalping is illegal in some places. I'd rather have the limitation on scalping removed, while having the folks who have the tickets to sell (TicketMaster, etc.) implement a limit per transaction and/or per credit card. That would keep the number of tickets each person could buy down to a small number, which would minimize the professional scalpers' ability to snag a large percentage of the tickets. As it is, scalping laws are a joke anyway, at least here in Louisiana... all you have to do is to sell a ticket along with a trinket, and say that the ticket is being sold at face value, but the trinket costs an extra X number of dollars. That's not scalping. Plus, there's a stupid law that says you can't sell tickets even at (or less than) face value within X number of feet of the Superdome here in New Orleans. That makes no logical sense, except if you're the Saints owner trying to maximize ticket sales.
quote:
I devote considerable effort to having learned many tricks of the trade to get tickets for sporting events and concerts and stuff, and I have never scalped a ticket because it's just something I refuse to do. I do not care for professional ticket scalpers, and I want no part of being like them.
I don't like car salesmen, but that doesn't mean I'll never sell a car on my own.
quote:
I try to sell any extras to people I know want to go to the show and would do the same in return, and as a result, I've virtually never paid more for a ticket and I've never been shut out of an event I wanted to go to, except for a game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals, and that was only because I didn't want to pay more than face value.
Do you do this just with tickets? Do you ever sell anything else? Do you never try to get the best price that you can? Not that I also don't sell at a discount or give things to relatives or friends, but that's not saying that selling to a stranger for a price they are willing to pay for something is wrong.
quote:
Suppose you were part of a community just like this one, except it was devoted to Dave Mathews fans. (Just making this up, I really don't know anything about Dave Mathews or his fans.) He is having a concert at a small venue in New York, and demand is incredible. You've been on the forum for a couple of years speculating about his new albums, concert info, etc., and everyone is convinced he's going to play some great old rarities at this show that never get played. When tickets come out, you need four, but you buy 8 because you figured out how to get them and you know they will sell for a fortune. Others in the Dave Mathews community board got shut out, because they sold out in 15 minutes. You didn't necessarily rely on any info from folks on the message board to get the tickets, but they are your "friends" of sorts, sharing a similar love of something that brings them together. Any problem with you buying 8 and reselling 4 at a profit? Well, that's up to you. Many would say, "the promoter sets the ticket limits, not me," and "this is the american way." Many would be on my side of the fence. Neither side is unreasonable; it's a personal choice about what's important to you.

Your analogy is flawed, however. Instead of a one-time concert with only a fixed number of tickets, change it to being a release of a new Dave Mathews CD. Let's say that some retailer is offering some CDs a little early, at a small discount even. Then I'd agree, like I do for the VE pre-orders, that's it's ethically shaky to buy with the intent of making a profit. But let's say that after the initial pre-order with this CD retailer, the CD starts to slowly percolate throughout other retailers, but demand is still outpacing supply. But I pre-ordered 2 CDs from one of these, and get them pretty early on. So I'm sitting there with an extra CD, and decide I only need one of them. Is it ethically wrong to put it up for auction for the highest bidder? Remember, I ordered from a retailer that was not offering the special early deal for that web community we're talking about. I got mine from Amazon, let's say. Remember also that there isn't a fixed, limited amount of CDs... they're making more as quickly as they can, and supply will eventually catch up with demand.
quote:
One thing that's interesting about this debate is that in the concert ticket area, attitudes are often dramatically different depending on which band you're talking about. Pearl Jam, for example, has a great fan community that shares info and face-value tickets. The Rolling Stones have many "whatever I can get" fans. Just an observation for an interesting thread. The tivo community forum seems to be somewhere in between!
I guess I see a difference between someone who is hoarding large numbers of a given product (tickets, HD-Tivos, etc.) and someone who just has an extra one or two that they want to sell.

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Last edited by BrettStah on 05-05-2004 at 11:28 PM

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:22 PM
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GoodSpike
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 8396

Re: Learn to spell

quote:
Originally posted by BigHat
Insults and wise ass remarks are much less effective when the writer doesn't have the intellect to know how to properly spell INANE.


Go back and look at the name of the person they were responding to. You missed the joke.

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I could care less if . . ..

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llogan is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:36 PM
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llogan
Advanced Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reston, VA (Washington DC)
Posts: 607

Re: Learn to spell

quote:
Originally posted by BigHat
Insults and wise ass remarks are much less effective when the writer doesn't have the intellect to know how to properly spell INANE.
Now THAT made me laugh! I wouldn't give the guy a hard time if it had happened on that OTHER thread (you know....the one with 5 million posts) but c'mon, it wasn't that hard to figure out it was the guy's handle...

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

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BigHat is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:46 PM
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BigHat
Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Arlington VA
Posts: 43

You got me

Well I wouldn't say it was clever, but it is most assuredly intentional.

My Bad.

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rwhitlow is offline Old Post 05-05-2004 11:50 PM
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rwhitlow
Posting Deficient

Registered: Mar 2003
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Posts: 224

You know that this was a big issue with Harley Davidson for a few years. People were putting down payments on several bikes, because it took over a year to get.

They would then sell the option (and make people pay up by delivery) at a handsome profit. All it cost was 20%. But, I guess if the bottom fell out they were out of luck.

I know dealers watched out for this, because it made some of their direct customers mad...but I don't think there was much they could do about it.

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>>> Ebay Tivo's.....make me sick to my stomach. <<<

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