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>>> My 1st generation Sony HD 100 has better PQ than my new HD Tivo. <<<

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RNZ is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 05:03 PM
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RNZ
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Question My 1st generation Sony HD 100 has better PQ than my new HD Tivo.

I don't understand. My original Sony HD 100 had/has a much better picture(colors and sharpness) than my new HD Tivo. This is in SD and HD feeding a Panny 50" PHD6UY. I have component and DVI feeds. Neither one surpasses my old Sony unit in terms of picture quality. Great signal from the dish, using very good cables, professionaly calibrated(ISF), etc. Any suggestions/reasons ? Also, in the DVI mode I cant get a signal in the 480i output, just 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

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JonR is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 05:11 PM
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JonR
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Sony HD100 vs. HD Tivo

I just replaced my HD100 with this unit and my wife and I both agree (how about that!) the HD100 has a much better picture than the new Tivo. I'm probably going to add the HD100 back into the system and use the Tivo as a VCR.

John

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Robert Simandl is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 05:17 PM
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Robert Simandl
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Considering I sold my HD100 to help pay for this thing (I'm far enough down the preorder list that I won't receive it for another month or so), that's NOT something I wanted to hear!

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midas is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 05:19 PM
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midas
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This has been discussed in a few other threads. It appears that the older model HD receivers had better picture quality than all the newer ones, not just the HDTivo. My original receiver was a Panasonic TSU-HD20. I replaced that with a Hughes HTL-HD. The Panasonic had a better picture. But the HDTivo picture is equal to the newer model Hughes. It would appear, in the sake of getting the costs down for the newer HD receivers that some quality has been sacrificed. It's not just the HDTivo, it's all latest generation receivers.

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sangs is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 05:29 PM
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sangs
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I'll second that. The PQ on my Hughes HTL-HD doesn't come close to that of my previously owned Zenith SAT-520, Toshiba DST-3000 or my old Panny HD20. Now, I'm just talking about the SD PQ stuff, not the HD. The HD has been pretty much the same across the board - as it should be. I still watch most of my non-HD programming through my HDVR2 and will probably continue to do so even when I get my HD Tivo on Tuesday, especially since it has nearly 200 hours of recording time. No need to waste the HD Tivo space on recording anything but HD from my perspective.

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aaronwt is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 05:50 PM
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aaronwt
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My Samsung 360 picture quality is at least equal to the picture quality that my DST3000 had. I think there is a little more overscan, but the picture is just as good.

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Chris Gerhard is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 06:32 PM
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Chris Gerhard
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If you have compared the picture quality with your older HDTV receiver and HD TiVo side by side using the same connection at the same time on the same channel and see an inferior picture with the HD TiVo, I am concerned about that. If you are saying that the HD picture you recall with your older receiver looked better in the past, I think that might be a result of DirecTV currently not doing a very good job with HDTV picture quality and your old receiver would not look as good now either. My local NBC HDTV affiliate has less noise and better picture quality than I see with HBO and Showtime currently and I believe DirecTV is compressing the signal to the detriment of picture quality now. I never owned an HDTV receiver until recently and got a Samsung SIR-TS360 which suffered from dropouts and was replaced by a Hughes HTL-HD which doesn't have a dropout problem. I am disappointed in DirecTV HDTV picture quality but from reading in the AVSforum believe these two receivers offer better picture quality then older models based on opinions of individuals that have owned older models. I have nothing to compare to. The Samsung might have been very slightly better if not for the dropout problem.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Hughes HTL-HD picture quality but believe it should be better with DirecTV channels and the fault lies with the signal and not the receiver.

Chris

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david(dallas) is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 07:46 PM
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david(dallas)
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It sounds like to me it's more if a quality difference between Sony and other higher priced models versus the Hughes models, Tivo or not.
I too will be going from a Sony HD200 to the Hughes HD.
I also don't like the idea that I might be going down in PQ in the HD mode.
I too sold my Sony for the HD-TIVO, I guess if I notice a difference I can hope back on ebay and get another HD200 probable for cheaper than I sold me HD200 1 month ago. But I hope it's not a noticeable difference for me on my Sony LCD 50".

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CHAS ZOSS is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 08:21 PM
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CHAS ZOSS
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A STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION

I canceled my order with SS yesterday, after spending 4200.00 plus for my Panny 52 DLP last Feb and 500.00 for my Samsung TS 160 I refuse to buy a product that will not perform as well as what I have now! I hope Hughes and Direct tv will improve these short comings and others and bring out a state of the art product that will enhance not degrade! after all why did we get our hd tvs if not for the best possible picture.

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neildallas is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 08:39 PM
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neildallas
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My HD-100 will be going on eBay shortly. I have not done a side-by-side comparison but from my memory the pic on my Toshiba 50HX81 is much the same and the menu on the TiVo is MUCH better. I'm keeping my DTC-100 for use with my JVC G-15 projector, not because it is a better tuner but I don't feel like changing the connector type (too lazy and a good enough picture).

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Chris Gerhard is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 08:42 PM
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Chris Gerhard
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quote:
Originally posted by david(dallas)
It sounds like to me it's more if a quality difference between Sony and other higher priced models versus the Hughes models, Tivo or not.
I too will be going from a Sony HD200 to the Hughes HD.



The current Sony HD300 and Hughes HTL-HD are both made by LG and are identical in all respects as far as picture quality since both use the same tuner and MPEG decoder. Any differences would be random and not a result of differences in HDTV reception and decoding ability of the two models.

Chris

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groovy is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 08:47 PM
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Re: My 1st generation Sony HD 100 has better PQ than my new HD Tivo.

quote:
Originally posted by RNZ
professionaly calibrated(ISF), etc. Any suggestions/reasons .


That is the reason. If it is professionally calibrated, then your current picture is "correct". The previous picture could not have been professionally calibrated, or the image would have been largely the same.

It would seem that the previous decoder was set hot and sharp, just like most AV equipment out of the box.

Unless of course you haven't professionally calibrated with the new hd-tivo, in which case, it means nothing. You need to calibrate using the source you are going to be looking at... So record the HDNET tests and calibrate your new system...

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david(dallas) is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 09:24 PM
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david(dallas)
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Gerhard
The current Sony HD300 and Hughes HTL-HD are both made by LG and are identical in all respects as far as picture quality since both use the same tuner and MPEG decoder. Any differences would be random and not a result of differences in HDTV reception and decoding ability of the two models.

Chris



Huh, I did not know that. I know the 2nd gen Sony amd Zenith's were the same.
Maybe the record to disk and then display to monitor might degrade the PQ a little with HD. O well, hoping to get my HD-TIVO today to see for myself.

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robnalex is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 09:29 PM
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robnalex
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Ewwww...not happy to be hearing these reports! My HR10-250 will also be replacing a Sony HD-100. But then, even though the PQ on the Sony is excellent, I hardly ever watch it because it's not TiVo and I'm addicted to time-shifting. Even so, I had hoped that the PQ would be as good or better than what I'm getting on my HD-100.

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clb is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 11:08 PM
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clb
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The HD Tivo has much better PQ for SD than the Samsung 160, which in my opinion was terrible. It's about equal to my SAT-T60. HD PQ seems equal to the Samsun 160 to me.

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RNZ is offline Old Post 05-09-2004 07:01 AM
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RNZ
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Unhappy

My original Sony HD100 was manufactured by Sony. It was the first generation. You would think that a fourth generation unit like the HD Tivo, would give you the newest and best HD PQ quality. Or are its guts just a cheapo Hughes HD unit which just happens to record HD. If that's the case, a bad joke has been played on all of us. I suspect that DirecTV hopes that the users of this new unit have never had an HD box in their homes and thus have nothing to compare it to. Even the cheapest and worst HD plasma/CRTs look very good, but when compared to the very best they fall short. And this unit was not inexpensive-the Sony cost less when it was introduced(granted no HD recording).

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midas is offline Old Post 05-09-2004 07:13 AM
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midas
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Well I don't think we should get carried away here. People are making it sound like it's like watching HD through a Coke bottle. Yes, there is a difference, but it's not that dramatic. As a comparison, look at OTA CBS and the D* CBS feed. Well it's not even 10% of that difference.

Yes there is a difference. But it's a very small difference and certainly nothing to go crazy about.

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fitsman is offline Old Post 05-09-2004 09:25 AM
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fitsman
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I noticed the same thing when I replaced my DTC-100 with the HD Tivo. Its just not quite as good. My 65 Mits Diamond HAS been ISF'd and looks great. Now the HD on the Tivo looks great too, but just not quite up to par with the DTC-100. After a few days, the sheer joy of having HD time shifting made me forget all about that little bit of quality I lost.

I have not done a side by side, and yes the DTC100 used RBGHV and the HDTivo uses Component. I also have the HD Tivo going through my AVM-20 component switching as I have only 1 Component cable long enough to reach my TV. I might have to do some experimenting to see if I can see a difference when I run a second cable.

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groovy is offline Old Post 05-09-2004 09:33 AM
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groovy
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quote:
Originally posted by RNZ
My original Sony HD100 was manufactured by Sony. It was the first generation. You would think that a fourth generation unit like the HD Tivo, would give you the newest and best HD PQ quality. Or are its guts just a cheapo Hughes HD unit which just happens to record HD. If that's the case, a bad joke has been played on all of us. I suspect that DirecTV hopes that the users of this new unit have never had an HD box in their homes and thus have nothing to compare it to. Even the cheapest and worst HD plasma/CRTs look very good, but when compared to the very best they fall short. And this unit was not inexpensive-the Sony cost less when it was introduced(granted no HD recording).


My point would be that it is not clear yet that the newest units have "worse" picture image, they may indeed be softer, and not as brilliant colors out of the box, but that may not be "worse." It is different. Just as many TV's are set too hot and brilliant out of the box, because that is what people think is a better picture, especially doing side by side comparisons on the store floor.

With a high quality output display, you should be able to adjust the image to be as good as possible to spec, and even make it overly sharp and/or brilliant depending on your taste, by appropriately adjusting your display to your new input device.

For the best possible picture, you need to calibrate to the input path you are going to use, in this case the HDTivo and the only real tool for this path, is the HDnet calibration tools recorded to your HDTivo.

I would grant, that the output may be "worse" because components have been cheapened (This happens in things like Audio Equipment all the time), and is a natural part of the evolution of AV equipment. However, I actually suspect this is not true. I suspect that appropriately the HDTivo box is just not set overly sharp and overly brilliant, and that I can correct to higher sharpness and brilliance if I want, in my display device, which is where it actually should be calibrated. And that this is not a bad joke, but is indeed a "better" image from which to calibrate to.

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zaknafein is offline Old Post 05-09-2004 09:36 AM
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Hmmmm....this is not good news. I'll be purchasing a projector in the next week, and was looking forward to getting an HDTiVo.

Can someone who has a DTV receiver capable of ATSC reception comment on how the HDTiVo and the standard receiver look tuned to an ATSC feed compare? (thus taking DTV out of the picture)

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>>> My 1st generation Sony HD 100 has better PQ than my new HD Tivo. <<<

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