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>>> New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals <<<

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spaschen is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 04:50 AM
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spaschen
In Tivo Heaven

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Posts: 41

Re: New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals

quote:
Originally posted by duffin
[B]I'm Duffin and I'm a UTV 'holic.

My 4 year old can navigate to his recorded shows no problem, play them, replay them, etc. Now he's stumped even with some training by me.




For what it's worth my 3yr old has been using a tivo for about a year to watch his shows. He doesn't watch TV often but Tivo is so simple he could press the couple of buttons needed to start a show when he was 2.

Give it some time, your wife and son will get hooked.

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isbellHFh is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 05:52 AM
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isbellHFh
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quote:
Originally posted by maineman
I can't imagine anyone who has used UTV and the HDTivo and not prefered the UI on the UTV.


As I tell my students all the time: proof by lack of imagination is not actually a proof.

In any case, my experience has been that this is mostly a whatever-I-learned-first issue. I have only anectodal evidence for this particular case of UTV vs TiVo, but there you go. Many of the issues raised here amount to "I'm used to a button called X that does Y" and the answer is "Well, do Z to get Y".

I dunno. I find the TiVo's interface extremely useful and I know how to do everything I want to do (and occassionally I learn some shorter way of doing it by reading something here). Better yet, the TiVo has lots of backdoor tricks for doing certain things faster. Now, put a UTV in front of me and I'd probably miss all the old buttons and tricks. In fact, I'd probably take a longer time to do a bunch of tasks and it would irk me to no end... but I have enough experience in life and in HCI to know that that's not the same thing as UTV being non-intuitive.

Having said that, there are several things TiVo should change. Making certain things faster or moving Season Pass to a different part of the interface might be one. Changing their UI into UTV's probably isn't.

Peace.

Last edited by isbellHFh on 05-19-2004 at 05:59 AM

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midas is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 05:57 AM
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midas
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quote:
Originally posted by isbellHFh
As I tell my students all the time: proof by lack of imagination is not actually a proof.



I realize you're kind of new here. I see you only have 9 posts. But I just wanted you to know - I'M STEALING THAT LINE!!!!

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PRMan is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 06:27 AM
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PRMan
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I miss the Jump to Time features on ReplayTV. You could press 2+QS to go ahead 2 minutes. 15+QS was great for period breaks in hockey or halftime in football if you were in a hurry. Also, you could hit 100+Jump to go to the second hour of a 2-hour show. This was especially important during 6- or 8-hour "shows" during the Olympics. Fast-forwarding 8 hours takes a while. (Although Skip to Tick has partially made up for it.)

Those are the only ReplayTV features I still miss. And I now think the TiVo is superior in many ways, but at first I thought as you do.

BTW, speaking of fast-forwarding, am I the only one that can FF a commercial 3X, hit play AFTER seeing my show start and end up BEFORE the point where I started?!? And people say it's just as good as 30-second skip? Besides, when watching sports, I don't WANT to see if they score in FF on the way back from the 2-minute warning.

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borghe is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 06:28 AM
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borghe
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quote:
Originally posted by paulfife
Unless this was changed in the "C" release for the SD receiver this is not correct (I haven't tried it since the update). I pointed this out in a post a while back as a small enhancement:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...goto=nextnewest


I have done this tonight to be sure I was right.

I am. On both my 3.1b Series 1's and my 3.1.5 HD Tivo this is how they behave...

I have never seen it prompt you for changing channels on a suggestion, and I have owned my Tivos for 3 years.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 01:43 PM
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duffin
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We'll here is more observations after lots of use tonight.

1. I am liking the Tivo channel guide for browsing future shows to set up recordings. It is fast; yeah! But I don't like it for surfing live TV or finding a live program quickly (e.g., Are the SF Giants on ESPN, FSN, or KTVU tonight?)

2. When surfing the Tivo Channel Guide, I set up a bunch of shows for 1x REC while others I put on Season Pass. For 1x shows, I go through the screen prompts and end up back at the same place on the Tivo Guide where I left off (good). When I set up a season pass from the Tivo Channel Guide and get through all the screen prompts, it lands me back at the start of the Tivo Guide for the present time, not where I left off (i.e., several days ahead for channel x) which is bad.

3. I'd still like to see a one step operation like UTV "red dot" to setup a program to REC 1x or Season Pass from either Tivo Guide or D* Guide. And when I channel surf in the future, I'd like to see the "red dot" telling me a show will REC.

4. I'd still like to see a stop button give me quick options of action on a landing page; Delete, Start Over, Save Until, Resume

Including the above, I'll narrow my upgrade desires to:
- Caller ID
- Small window in guide for current channel
- List consolidates duplicate titles on one line
- List shows more info per item than just title and date -- like to see duration, channel too
- Faster D* guide

If all the above were available, no other system would beat it unless multi-media & networking options become more prevelant.

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isbellHFh is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 03:36 PM
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isbellHFh
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quote:
Originally posted by duffin
We'll here is more observations after lots of use tonight.

2. When surfing the Tivo Channel Guide, I set up a bunch of shows for 1x REC while others I put on Season Pass. For 1x shows, I go through the screen prompts and end up back at the same place on the Tivo Guide where I left off (good). When I set up a season pass from the Tivo Channel Guide and get through all the screen prompts, it lands me back at the start of the Tivo Guide for the present time, not where I left off (i.e., several days ahead for channel x) which is bad.



Yes. Extremely irritating. I found that a big problem when I was transferring my bizillion season passes. Because all the indexing hadn't been done I couldn't do a search by name to get to most of the programs; however, I found that if they were in the guide I could select them and set up a season pass, but this often required moving a week or two in advance of the current date.

I *think* I figured out a way around this once or twice, but for the life of me I can't remember what I did. Maybe I set up a record once then went through and made season passes from the to-dos or something? That's not a long-term solution but made sense for batch processing because I also needed to set up the details for and re-arrange the season passes, and after one or two I preferred to avoid the nested for loops and do things one after the other instead: find all the programs, for each program set up season pass details, rearrange order.

It occurs to me that in the non-startup typical case, going back to where you started might be the right thing. In a fully-indexed world one would do search--not guide checking weeks in advance--to set up season passes.

I wonder if doing left arrow instead of select at the end of the process would get you back to where you started?

quote:

3. I'd still like to see a one step operation like UTV "red dot" to setup a program to REC 1x or Season Pass from either Tivo Guide or D* Guide. And when I channel surf in the future, I'd like to see the "red dot" telling me a show will REC.



I must be misreading this because I thought this already happened.

quote:

...

Including the above, I'll narrow my upgrade desires to:
- Caller ID
- Small window in guide for current channel
- List consolidates duplicate titles on one line
- List shows more info per item than just title and date -- like to see duration, channel too
- Faster D* guide

If all the above were available, no other system would beat it unless multi-media & networking options become more prevelant.



- sure, why not (probably wouldn't work with my goofy panasonic multiple line business setup so I'll never notice)?
- can't argue against it, though I never liked that in my pre-TiVo experience, and post-TiVo I find that I never channel surf (one of the best things about TiVo: I actually *watch* more TV but the TV is on much less: if there's nothing on TiVo I find that instead of surfing I go do something else)
- not quite sure what that means, but it sounds good
- are you talking about the list guide or something else? In general though I think that TiVo ought to take advantage of 16x9 displays to show more information.
- I don't personally use it but yes it should be much faster, just on principle.

Peace.

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borghe is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 06:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by duffin
4. I'd still like to see a stop button give me quick options of action on a landing page; Delete, Start Over, Save Until, Resume

heh.. the left arrow DOES do this. hit left arrow on a recorded show and it takes you back the the show's page letting you do everything you just mentioned except it will only give you play if you are at the very beginning or very end, otherwise it will always give you resume.

Also remember, the advance button if not fast forwarding it will automatically take you to the end of a show. if you hit it again it will automatically take you back to the beginning. if you have the 30s skip setup that functionality replaces the advance functionality, but personally I find instant access to the beginning and end of a program much more useful than yet another fast forward.. I have tried using 30s skip on a number of instances and still prefer the Tivo's ffwd-jump-back-a-few-seconds method more.

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slocko is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 07:24 PM
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slocko
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since i don't use the play button anymore, i think i will put a macro on there to start over a show. it will be a two button advance button press right?

only catch is that i have to make it device specific. thankfully that is possible with my remote.

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slocko is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 07:25 PM
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slocko
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Did you discover the codes for Sorting? It's not folders, but it helps until the upgrades get here. I think there is a good chance we will see that upgrade this summer. Someone already has seen this working on a DTivo box.

quote:
Originally posted by duffin
We'll here is more observations after lots of use tonight.

1. I am liking the Tivo channel guide for browsing future shows to set up recordings. It is fast; yeah! But I don't like it for surfing live TV or finding a live program quickly (e.g., Are the SF Giants on ESPN, FSN, or KTVU tonight?)

2. When surfing the Tivo Channel Guide, I set up a bunch of shows for 1x REC while others I put on Season Pass. For 1x shows, I go through the screen prompts and end up back at the same place on the Tivo Guide where I left off (good). When I set up a season pass from the Tivo Channel Guide and get through all the screen prompts, it lands me back at the start of the Tivo Guide for the present time, not where I left off (i.e., several days ahead for channel x) which is bad.

3. I'd still like to see a one step operation like UTV "red dot" to setup a program to REC 1x or Season Pass from either Tivo Guide or D* Guide. And when I channel surf in the future, I'd like to see the "red dot" telling me a show will REC.

4. I'd still like to see a stop button give me quick options of action on a landing page; Delete, Start Over, Save Until, Resume

Including the above, I'll narrow my upgrade desires to:
- Caller ID
- Small window in guide for current channel
- List consolidates duplicate titles on one line
- List shows more info per item than just title and date -- like to see duration, channel too
- Faster D* guide

If all the above were available, no other system would beat it unless multi-media & networking options become more prevelant.

__________________
I am his twin bother.

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slocko is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 07:28 PM
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slocko
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Never mind, I will just remap advance to the play button. that way i have more options.

quote:
Originally posted by slocko
since i don't use the play button anymore, i think i will put a macro on there to start over a show. it will be a two button advance button press right?

only catch is that i have to make it device specific. thankfully that is possible with my remote.

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paulfife is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 08:03 PM
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paulfife
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quote:
Originally posted by borghe
I have done this tonight to be sure I was right.

I am. On both my 3.1b Series 1's and my 3.1.5 HD Tivo this is how they behave...

I have never seen it prompt you for changing channels on a suggestion, and I have owned my Tivos for 3 years.



You've got it backwards! It will prompt you for changing channels when viewing a requested recording on the foreground tuner, while a suggestion records in the background.

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Geof in CO is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 08:31 PM
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Geof in CO
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I'd certainly welcome Caller ID...I used that all the time with my Hughes E86.

I certainly want a faster D* guide.

One thing that bugs me on the D* guide is if you press select on a show that has ended nothing happens...you need to right arrow over to the currently playing show. Example: One program ends at 8:10 and the next one begins right after that....since the guide starts at 8:00 the highlighted selection lands on the program that ends at 8:10 even though the current time may be 8:20. Pressing the Select button has no effect...the channel does not change. To tune into the channel one must select the program that is currently playing.

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chadly25 is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 08:36 PM
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chadly25
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quote:
Originally posted by slocko
since i don't use the play button anymore, i think i will put a macro on there to start over a show. it will be a two button advance button press right?


Not necessarily. If the show is already live then it would only be a single press. If you are talking about using it only while watching pre-recorded programs then yes that would work.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 11:11 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by borghe
heh.. the left arrow DOES do this. hit left arrow on a recorded show and it takes you back the the show's page letting you do everything you just mentioned except it will only give you play if you are at the very beginning or very end, otherwise it will always give you resume.

Also remember, the advance button if not fast forwarding it will automatically take you to the end of a show. if you hit it again it will automatically take you back to the beginning. if you have the 30s skip setup that functionality replaces the advance functionality, but personally I find instant access to the beginning and end of a program much more useful than yet another fast forward.. I have tried using 30s skip on a number of instances and still prefer the Tivo's ffwd-jump-back-a-few-seconds method more.



I'll try programming LEFT ARROW into the STOP position on my Harmony.

We are too used to the 30s skip to blast commercials.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 11:12 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by slocko
Did you discover the codes for Sorting? It's not folders, but it helps until the upgrades get here. I think there is a good chance we will see that upgrade this summer. Someone already has seen this working on a DTivo box.


How do you do sorting?

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 11:14 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by isbellHFh


Duffin - 3. I'd still like to see a one step operation like UTV "red dot" to setup a program to REC 1x or Season Pass from either Tivo Guide or D* Guide. And when I channel surf in the future, I'd like to see the "red dot" telling me a show will REC.


I must be misreading this because I thought this already happened.



I don't see the "red dot" on the Tivo nor does the REC button work in the Tivo or D* guide.

Other people do?

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borghe is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 11:16 PM
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hmm.. record button should work.. otherwise press enter on it and it will do the same thing.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 11:29 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by borghe
hmm.. record button should work.. otherwise press enter on it and it will do the same thing.


I'll test some more. I have a back-up unit coming from CC that I can try too.

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GreyGhost00 is offline Old Post 05-19-2004 11:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by duffin
How do you do sorting?

(S)low + (0) zero + (R)ecord + (T)humbsUp = (S.O.R.T)

That will give you the option to sort on Expiration date, Alphabetically, or by record date.

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