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trausch is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 03:29 AM
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trausch
Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 278

quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW6ATV
From the list, I would probably pick History HD and WGN-HD (for Cubs games). If I could pick my own channels to be in HD, I would say Fox Movie Channel and maybe AMC.


Why AMC? Would it not be just upconverted junk? HD Net showed an old Charlie's Angels from the 80s yesterday and it looked like crap.

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groovy is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 03:35 AM
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groovy
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Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by rtaylor123
I think the key is not to compromise on whether HD movies or HD sports are transmitted, but rather to transmit HiDef more intelligently. That is, to take advantage of the TiVo time-shifting capabilities.



There is already something sort of like this, but not for HD. Starz dish on demand. If you sign up for it, it records stuff for you on your Tivo, which you can watch or not...

Certainly showcase can also be extended for something like this.

But you have to ask yourself, what is the business model?

For a pay network, whatever you do has to add a new subscriber, and I would seriously question that your are going to get many additional subscribers. Those that already subscribe to HBO just for HD and Soprano's are already there. Additionally, showing the same movie several times a week is cheaper for an HBO than showing different items.

For an advertisor supported network the key is eyeballs watching ads. And we all know how great TiVo is for that.

Certainly the PPVHD should be extended with more material, especially now that there are HD-TiVo owners out there. I think judicially using the PPV channel and channel 84 they could present significant quantity of material that could be either included in the HD package (they need more material in HD than they already provide. For instance 84 could be used for various regional sports that may be in HD but not nationally. The PPV could be used for things like the WCF that would earn TNT extra money, especially on a distribution network that they other wise have no viewership on.

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trausch is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 03:45 AM
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trausch
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Registered: Jan 2004
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Posts: 278

Hey if it were only about money there would be no HD. What does direct TV have? Maybe 25 million suscribers? How many have HDTV and what tiny fraction have an HD Tivo. Face it, we are on the internet chatting in a Tivo forum. This is geek central and we are driving the technology. Direct TV is great for my Dad but sucks for me. No HDTV content and NO Home media Option. It is a shame they do not do more for people like us. I have all the channels and usually buy the hockey package. My bill is three times my Dads but direct tv is designed for him. Why? Becuase there are 10 times as many guys like my Dad as there are guys like me. If the world was designed for people like us you would only be able to watch high definition and probably even on your cell phone.

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groovy is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 04:04 AM
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groovy
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Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by trausch
Hey if it were only about money there would be no HD. What does direct TV have? Maybe 25 million suscribers? How many have HDTV and what tiny fraction have an HD Tivo. Face it, we are on the internet chatting in a Tivo forum. This is geek central and we are driving the technology. Direct TV is great for my Dad but sucks for me. No HDTV content and NO Home media Option. It is a shame they do not do more for people like us. I have all the channels and usually buy the hockey package. My bill is three times my Dads but direct tv is designed for him. Why? Becuase there are 10 times as many guys like my Dad as there are guys like me. If the world was designed for people like us you would only be able to watch high definition and probably even on your cell phone.


?!?
HDTiVo is a competitive advantage that brings and keeps customers to DirecTV. That adds to additional subscribers to the base. It is ALL about the money. HDTiVo once it is able to be freely available will add more subscribers to DirecTV than anything else they are doing now. And yes, they LOVE you cuz you are worth 3 times more than your dad. And *you* already subscribe. What do they need to do for that NEXT customer.

Without HDTiVo, and without HD content, I and others would be looking elsewhere. With HDTiVo, I *AM* a DirecTV customer. Not the otherway around.

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trausch is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 04:09 AM
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trausch
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 278

quote:
Originally posted by groovy
?!?
HDTiVo is a competitive advantage that brings and keeps customers to DirecTV. That adds to additional subscribers to the base. It is ALL about the money. HDTiVo once it is able to be freely available will add more subscribers to DirecTV than anything else they are doing now. And yes, they LOVE you cuz you are worth 3 times more than your dad. And *you* already subscribe. What do they need to do for that NEXT customer.

Without HDTiVo, and without HD content, I and others would be looking elsewhere. With HDTiVo, I *AM* a DirecTV customer. Not the otherway around.



I am not a betting man but I would wager that only a small fraction of people joined direct tv for the HD Tivo. Most likely most of us had so much money invested in Direct TV equpment that it was the only choice. Also, many people took advantage of the $99 HDTV upgrade to get setup for the HDTV Tivo.

If you dumped your cable company to join Direct TV to get HDTV Tiivo then welocme to the club....now, bend over.

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rtaylor123 is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 04:48 AM
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rtaylor123
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Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by groovy
But you have to ask yourself, what is the business model?



Yup, that is the problem.

For now, HDTV support is mostly to remain competitive and position themselves for the future. I doubt anybody is making much money on it.

However, at some point in the future, HDTV/16:9 will be the norm, HD-DVR equipment with massive capacity will be a giveaway, and watching live TV will become unusual. Unless they have changed the paradigm to focus on local time-shifting, they are going to have to launch a whole lot of satellites and install more CATV lines or switches. For cable, it might be cheaper to move to true VoD rather than broadcast 200 HDTV channels.

It would definitely be a switch in the business model, but it doesn't seem impossible, and moving there before the mass exodus to HDTV seems reasonable since the HDTV receiver base is still small.

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pinballfan is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 05:34 AM
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pinballfan
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Registered: Oct 2001
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Movies, movies, and oh, did I mention movies?!

(I get locals OTA and don't really care about sports...)

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gquiring is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 06:04 AM
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gquiring
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quote:
Originally posted by freff
NO LOCALS! Why waste bandwidth on locals that you can get unmolested via a simple antenna? If you have trouble, then hire a professional to set it up for you.
Ahhh one who assumes that everyone can just install an antenna on the outside!! Landlords, rentals, condos etc... don't always have those 'easy' options.

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hd10250 is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 06:08 AM
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hd10250
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No locals (as I receive 7 OTA network signals with an antenna in the attic).

Put the bandwidth towards Sports, Movies and more HD channels.

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PRMan is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 06:48 AM
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PRMan
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Yorba Linda, CA, USA
Posts: 273

If you don't like sports, that's fine, but I don't think most people can argue that football and especially hockey benefit the most from the HD experience. I would say documentaries are next (especially those of national parks or similar places).

But I agree with the previous poster that said that movies on DVD are readily available and look ALMOST as good as HD movies. Many HD movie transfers are not well-done and look no better than the DVD version. I have seen a couple movies on HDNet Movies where I said "Wow!", but on most they only look little or no better than DVD quality.

So, for me:

1. Fox Sports West
2. KNBC, KTTV (FOXW), KABC, KTLA (WB) (Big hill. No amount of money can "get around" it, no matter who I pay.)

And made up:

Cartoon Network HD (Let me see ALL of those old widescreen Tom & Jerry's LOL)

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ChrisW6ATV is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 09:44 AM
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ChrisW6ATV
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Registered: Apr 2004
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Posts: 177

quote:
Originally posted by trausch
Why AMC? Would it not be just upconverted junk? HD Net showed an old Charlie's Angels from the 80s yesterday and it looked like crap.

AMC and Fox Movie Channel are two non-premium channels I know of that show widescreen movies. 'Widescreen/original aspect ratio' and 'non-premium' (as well as 'non-edited') are my ideal criteria for HD programming. I have heard that AMC is not as good as it once was, but I have not checked it in a while since I started watching mostly HD content.

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ANSEK is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 04:30 PM
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ANSEK
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Registered: Sep 2001
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Posts: 38

I vote no locals as well. Of the channels currently available but not on D* I would like see Cinemax HD, Starz HD and The Movie Channel HD. I would love to see the SciFi Channel come out with an HD channel.

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Chris Gerhard is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 06:19 PM
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Chris Gerhard
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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: MO
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I don't know if it is possible but I would like to see bandwidth used to make the standard definition channels better. Having watched a couple of DVDs in progressive scan mode with my digital monitor, I can easily see how much better the SD channels should be. DVD quality can't be attained but it could be close without the compression. Of course add all of the HDTV channels, improve the HDTV channels currently broadcast and offer my local channels. If I am going to dream that is it.

Of course reality is nowhere near enough bandwidth is available to do any of my requests much less all of them, but oh well.

Chris

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Fluffybear is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 07:57 PM
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Fluffybear
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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: International Falls, MN
Posts: 378

quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW6ATV
AMC and Fox Movie Channel are two non-premium channels I know of that show widescreen movies. 'Widescreen/original aspect ratio' and 'non-premium' (as well as 'non-edited') are my ideal criteria for HD programming. I have heard that AMC is not as good as it once was, but I have not checked it in a while since I started watching mostly HD content.


I'd replace AMC with TMC. AMC went to showing commercials during there movies and from the few movies I have watched on AMC, it is worse then watching on movie on Broadcast TV. AMC tends to break for a commercial every 10 minutes.

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clb is offline Old Post 05-26-2004 10:41 PM
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clb
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I can't believe how many people asked for locals! First, it is a huge waste of bandwidth, and second, it isn't going to happen anytime soon. What is likely to happen is national network feeds and this should solve everyone's problem anyway since you can get them if you need them and otherwise you can simply put an antenna on your roof (and if you can't do even that then you will be able to get them through cable soon enough).

My votes:

1. Better PPV channel. Ideally it would be a PPV-Tivo style channel that simply rotated through all the current regular PPV movies, but in HD with very low compression.
2. More HD sports. I don't ever want to watch sports in SD again. Problem is the content isn't really there yet so it's not clear what channels to add. Even ESPN-HD is basically still SD, even for playoff basketball!
3. Starz/Cinemax/etc
4. National network feeds

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fredfa is offline Old Post 05-27-2004 04:26 AM
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fredfa
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re clb:
"...I can't believe how many people asked for locals! First, it is a huge waste of bandwidth, and second, it isn't going to happen anytime soon."

Chase Carey, CEO of DIRECTV Group would disagree.
He says within 12 months the first of the top 30 market HD locals will be in place, with the remaining top 30 markets within two years.
In terms of business, D* and E* have to build out their LIL (and now HD LIL) because there is almost no place for them to add subs unless they take them from cable.
In addition, I believe the national network feeds will be available to all homes in O&O areas by later this year.

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cutt is offline Old Post 05-27-2004 04:46 AM
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cutt
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quote:
Originally posted by ANSEK
I would love to see the SciFi Channel come out with an HD channel.


me too, when stargate moved from showtime-hd to scifi, that was bad enough, but on the horizon is the new battlestar galactica series next spring. hopefully they will get it hd'd by then.

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joker454 is offline Old Post 05-27-2004 05:19 AM
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joker454
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quote:
Originally posted by freff
NO LOCALS! Why waste bandwidth on locals that you can get unmolested via a simple antenna? If you have trouble, then hire a professional to set it up for you.


Come setup my antenna then. After going thru 7 different antennas (all professionally installed) I still can't get OTA reliably. The strongest signal I have *ever* pulled is with antenna setup #7, which is currently a Channel Master 4228 mounted 6 feet above my peak roofline, and Channel Master 7775 amp. It's the most obnoxious looking setup you can imagine, neighbors from blocks away can see it and have come by to ask me what its for. In the end, it gives me a whopping 40-50 signal stength on CBS, 25-35 on NBC, and 35-40 on ABC, and thats on a *good* day. The numbers are usually less than that. So basically, all unwatcheable. And I'm only 10 miles from the towers.

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bloozeman is offline Old Post 05-27-2004 06:34 AM
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bloozeman
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Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by fredfa
Chase Carey, CEO of DIRECTV Group would disagree.
He says within 12 months the first of the top 30 market HD locals will be in place, with the remaining top 30 markets within two years.



Granted I'm not a current D* subscriber (will be making the leap from E* to D* for the HD TiVo though) but it seems to me D* has been dragging their feet on adding any new HD channels for months now. Was he eluding to the fact they are going to be broadcasting the locals in HD for their top 30 markets within 24 months? I'm with others on this list to me that would be a waste of bandwith. When I moved into my current house about 18 months ago I put up a Winegard HD7082 for my TiVo Series 2 standalone (and getting ready of course for the future HD PVR) so I fully expect to use it and never pay D* for locals (I don't pay E* now). Thus, I'd vote for other programming additions.

-Ray

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trausch is offline Old Post 05-27-2004 06:35 PM
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trausch
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 278

I am torn on the locals. I am 1 day away from installing my new Channel Master on the roof. Here is my dilema.....I know I have a reasonable shot at getting all my locals but there are advantages to getting them from the dish.

1) Less likely to be affected by weather
2) Fox and WB only broadcast at 488 and are way under powered. I am sure the national feed wil be the first to go to 1080 and power will not be an issue.
3) PBS has been down for months with techical porblems.
4) Basically the locally owned stations are being foced to broadcast in HDTV, they don't like it. and go about it with the same enthusiasm as my 3 year old when I make him clean his room.


Here is the advantage to getting the OTA locals.

1) With my cheap antenna which direct TV installed for free I get CBS. The OTA CBS looks better then the Dirrect TV CBS on my 57 inch Hitachi HDTV. I think the loss in quality is from the compression that Direct TV us using.


So in summary I would prefer the locals from Direct TV if they would open up teh bandwidth and not overcompress the crap out of all the signals. What good is 1080i if you get compression artificats.

By the way, Hockey on HDTV rocks!

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