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>>> DirecTv Sold Stake in TiVo <<<

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 06-15-2004 12:23 AM
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BrettStah
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 3104

quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
THANK YOU. That is PRECISELY the point I've been trying to get across. We've already seen that in the 'feature gap' between the SA Series 2's and the HDVR2 and it's clones...

- no folders
- no functional USB2 ports for ethernet connection for daily calls (imposing the POTS tax)
- distinct lack of fixes and enhancements
- I won't even mention HMO, even tho up till now that was 'optional' and could be argued with, but now it's going to be STANDARD.

The second-generation DirecTivos are getting a software update later this year that will include some of the standalone 4.x features, possibly including the Home Media features. As far as USB2 ports for ethernet connection, there's no real need for those unless and until the networking stuff is activated... my DirecTivos have gone hundreds of days (maybe a year by now) without dialing in. The next big software update (once again, due out this year) will enable software updates via satellite, so the modem won't be required for that either. It (the modem) may still be required for initial setup, but that's easy enough to do at a friend's house.

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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

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dwynne is offline Old Post 06-15-2004 01:57 AM
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dwynne
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Re: It is a busniess deal, nothing else!

quote:
Originally posted by slacker9876
There are still die-hard UltimateTV users and they will remain so until they find something they deem to be better.

TiVo as a company is way behind the times as they have no dual-tuner, PIP, or HD receiver away from D*. Someone will have a better product and someone will buy that product.



The guy in the next office is an UTV user, I was telling him how anyone can get a Dtivo for $99 now - and how easy we could expand the hard drive. He was thinking about it, then rememebered that no Tivo has PiP - which his UTV does. So he is going to keep paying $10 a month UTV fee (VS $5 Tivo fee) and keep using his UTV until it breaks or they say he can't use it any more.

You CAN do PiP with DTivos, just buy and activate 2 of them and use the PiP of your TV. Other than the "buy 2" cost, it would end up costing the same each month ($5 Tivo fee and $5 mirror fee) as the $10 UTV fee - and you could record 4 things at the same time while watching 2 others

Dennis

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bonscott87 is offline Old Post 06-15-2004 09:59 AM
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bonscott87
Lets go Red Wings!

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: In the wilds of West Michigan
Posts: 890

quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
THANK YOU. That is PRECISELY the point I've been trying to get across. We've already seen that in the 'feature gap' between the SA Series 2's and the HDVR2 and it's clones...

- no folders
- no functional USB2 ports for ethernet connection for daily calls (imposing the POTS tax)
- distinct lack of fixes and enhancements
- I won't even mention HMO, even tho up till now that was 'optional' and could be argued with, but now it's going to be STANDARD.

Just because it's 'TiVo Technology' dosen't mean it's gonna look, walk, talk like a TiVo.




I seem to not remember any of those features being advertised when I bought either of my DirecTivo's.

Oh, that's right, *they weren't*.

Look, HMO, USB, etc. aren't part of the DirecTivo feature set right now. And they were never advertised that they would be either. GET OVER IT. For those that just figured they would be added, you thought wrong. I'm sorry for you. But my DirecTivo's do exactly what I bought them to do. Record my shows. Not make my popcorn too. Would I like some of the more advanced Stand Alone feature set? Sure. Am I upset that I don't have it? Not one bit. It's not what I bought.

__________________
Scott
Huhges HDVR2
Sony Sat T-60 DirecTivo w/ 149 hours
Hughes E86 HD STB
MX-500 remote and 43" Hitachi widescreen HDTV
Vonage phone service, no landline!

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Rombaldi is offline Old Post 06-15-2004 11:59 PM
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Rombaldi
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Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by bonscott87
Look, HMO, USB, etc. aren't part of the DirecTivo feature set right now. And they were never advertised that they would be either. GET OVER IT.


Why don't YOU get over trying to be the great defender of TiVo? The point was 'TiVo Technology' does not mean you may get everything that TiVo offers.. and to point out that DTV could, at any time, REMOVE or FAIL TO ADD features that are 'TiVo' and it would still be 'TiVo Technology'..

go crawl back under your bridge...

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Crash_Corrigan is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 12:46 AM
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Crash_Corrigan
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Features come and features go in STBs, in DVRs, in most consumer products. That's life.

High-end Directv STBs used to include IR blasters and RF remotes. They're now a rarity. Caller ID was added to many 2nd and 3rd generation STBs but then dropped from almost all newer models.

I once had a VCR that flagged the ends of recordings so that it was easy to fastforward to rewind to the end or beginning of a recorded show. When that machine died 3 years ago I couldn't find any VCR at any price that had that feature.

Hopefully some of the HMO features will get added to the D* SD and HD Tivos before the end of the year, but there's no guarantee. In fact there's no gurantee that the current HMO feature set will continue to be offered indefinitely for SA Tivos.

That's life. You don't always get exactly what you want, even if you're willing to pay for it. Ferrari makes convertibles, but they don't make an Enzo Ferrari convertible. Chances are I won't be able to convince Ferrari to make me one-off Enzo Ferrari ragtop in the Ferrari factory even if I win Powerball.

If you think D* is the sole root of the problem when it comes to HMO on D* gear, you are sorely mistaken. It's the content providers in Hollywood that are paranoid about digital bootlegging and file sharing. D* is acting based on their position. Case in point Replay. Replay pushed the envelope and the industry has all but killed them with its law suits and such. D* isn't going to go out of its way to risk stepping on any of those same toes that Replay stepped on. It has too much to lose. Just like that company that was selling DVD copying software. It had a legitimate use...making backup copies of DVDs purchased for home viewing, but its been shut down because if could be used to make bootleg DVDs too.

The whole entertainment industry needs to be straightened out or all our fair use rights to timeshift, archive and skip commericals may be in jeopardy one of these days.

If you want to b*tch at D* also b*tch at all the studios, networks and other media companies that generate content and want to restrict it and protect it for fear of piracy. Truth is copy protection doesn't impact the high volume pirates in the Far East and probably never will. They still find ways to make big bucks with bootleg movies and music and software. It only hurts consumers and limits our usage rights.

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bonscott87 is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 01:29 AM
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bonscott87
Lets go Red Wings!

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: In the wilds of West Michigan
Posts: 890

quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Why don't YOU get over trying to be the great defender of TiVo? The point was 'TiVo Technology' does not mean you may get everything that TiVo offers.. and to point out that DTV could, at any time, REMOVE or FAIL TO ADD features that are 'TiVo' and it would still be 'TiVo Technology'..

go crawl back under your bridge...



I would hardly call my statement a defender of Tivo. Simply stating that the hardware that both you and I purchased was never advertised to do these things. If you can prove otherwise, please produce your proof. If you can't, you've got no reason to b*tch about it.

And I have been first to admit in other posts (in this very thread no less) that if DirecTV dumps Tivo completely but offers a comparable DVR system that is fine by me, I won't be going anywhere. Hardly a cheerleader for Tivo I'd have to say. While I love my Tivo's, if someone else offers a comparable product with as good or better programming options, I'm there. I'm very interested in what Voom's DVR will look like.

__________________
Scott
Huhges HDVR2
Sony Sat T-60 DirecTivo w/ 149 hours
Hughes E86 HD STB
MX-500 remote and 43" Hitachi widescreen HDTV
Vonage phone service, no landline!

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Rombaldi is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 02:23 AM
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Rombaldi
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quote:
Originally posted by bonscott87
I would hardly call my statement a defender of Tivo. Simply stating that the hardware that both you and I purchased was never advertised to do these things. If you can prove otherwise, please produce your proof. If you can't, you've got no reason to b*tch about it.


which TOTALLY has nothing to do with what I was talking about.. it's "What is considered 'TiVo Technology".... D* tomorrow could drop an update on every existing DirecTiVo..

- totally change the interfact
- remove wishlists
- remove season passes
- add the restriction on a program so that you could only play it a limited number of times, or only keep it a certain length of time and then it's erased (and you can't override it).

but KEEP the 'name based' recording.... (that's part of TiVo's patents)..

(I'm not saying that they WILL/WOULD do this, but it could be done)

and as long as they kept one 'feature' from the TiVo ... then it would still be 'a DirecTV DVR with TiVo technology').

That's the point....

YES, D* may well be working on a 'low end' DVR with 'TiVo Technology', but how much 'TiVo Technology'... and there is NOTHING to say that that version of the software WILL NOT end up on the box you have right now. (low-end = single tuner???). Think of the support structure if the boxes have the IDENTICAL interface.

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gfb107 is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 02:32 AM
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gfb107
Advanced Member

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This supposed "low end DVR with TiVo Technology" will probably just use TiVo basic, like the DVD combo boxes use. Seems to me that would be the fastest/easiest way to get there.

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Philips DSR6000R DirecTiVo, 86 hours (40GB+60GB)
DirecTV HR10-250 HD-DirecTiVo
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DirecTiVo or Standalone TiVo?
My TiVo distribution setup
Need a universal remote? Try the OFA URC-6131 (modifed for JP1)

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Crash_Corrigan is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 03:17 AM
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Crash_Corrigan
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Registered: Feb 2004
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Posts: 284

I don't care about networking my SD and HD Tivo together or networking them with my PC or hooking either of the Tivos up to my DSL connection for broadband access. I don't care about keeping a digital photo album on my Tivos or using them to play MP3s.

I do hope D* implements a folder system for organizing the Now Playing lists on my Tivos. I bought D* Tivos because I wanted DVRs not because I wanted home media servers. Enhanced DVR functions and other goodies are always welcome (especially if they're free), but I don't need my Tivos to pop popcorn or make cappucinos or allow me to web surf and send email on my TV.

I just wish my Tivos had RF remotes (my Bluedo RF remote extender doesn't work as well as either RF remote that came with my old Sony SAT-A2 STB or E86 HD STB), an IR blaster to control a VCR or DVD recorder (both the SAT-A2 and E86 had this feature too), a better way to transfer multiple shows or movies to VCR or DVD burner and I wish the HD Tivo had a firewire port for DVHS or future HD DVD recorder (I'd at least like to have the option to add the ability to archive HD if I want to at some point), but Hollywood doesn't want us to do that...just like when the industry tried to kill the VCR because it would destroy the movie and tv business. Funny, the business has only grown exponentially since the VCR hit the market in the early 80s.

Now the industry wants us to go VOD so that we have to pay for viewing content everytime we watch it (ala DIVX) and we never get a hardcopy on disk or tape or any other media. Bill Gates wants us to eventually lease his software. Hollywood wants basically the same thing. The music business wants us to pay monthly fees to stream music to us via the internet or satellite radio rather than letting us own copies of the music.

Someday in the not too distant future "fair use" will be a thing of the past. For better or worse everything will be streamed to us in copy protected format and we'll be paying for it by the minute or by the bit and it won't necessarily be commercial free. Movies recorded on DVRs may have an expiration date and erase themselves after a predetermined period of time and require you to repurchase them. We may not be able to skip commercials and OTA and basic cable satellite may go away and be replaced by more expensive VOD alternatives. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing whether D*'s future DVRs have Tivo technology inside or not.

Last edited by Crash_Corrigan on 06-16-2004 at 03:36 AM

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philgrocks is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 05:30 AM
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philgrocks
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Sadly Tivo looks to be just a feature and not a whole company :-(

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jfischer is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 05:43 AM
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jfischer
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quote:
Originally posted by slacker9876
And agree ... The way I see it, I PAY for my TV and should be bale to enjoy it commerical free like XM radio.


But XM advertises their music as 100% commercial free, so you get what you're paying for.

DirecTV has never advertised the channels they distribute (and they are only the distributors, not the content provider for the most part) as being commercial free. Premium channels like HBO, Showtime etc are different of course. The money you pay to XM is in return for commercial-free music. The money you pay to DirecTV is in return for access to certain programming, with commercials included.

Now, I skip commercials like a fiend, just like the rest of you. It's great that TiVo allows the ability to do this. As these things (DVRs) get more popular, don't be surprised when the content suppliers (DirecTV/Comcast/etc) start removing things like 30 second skips in their DVRs to appease the content suppliers.

Our numbers are too small now to have much impact on the sales of commercial time, but as the number of DVR users grow something may have to give. Whether it's a change to streaming video that you can't skip commercials on, the removal of 30-second skip buttons, or something else entirely - things may change and not to our liking I'm afraid...

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Crash_Corrigan is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 08:53 AM
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Crash_Corrigan
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Jfischer makes a very good point. D* is a middleman buying content from providers and reselling it to consumers. Tivo (at least until it partners with content providers for its internet streaming venture) does not. Tivo (like Replay and Ultimate TV) have more flexibility to offer features that Hollywood may not appreciate or necessarily want the puplic to have. Sure, if a DVR maker goes too far by including features in a DVR that can be exploited for piracy, the media giants can take legal action to shut them down or force them to modify the product, but a middleman like D* has to have a working relationship with those content companies...negotiate contracts with them and partner with them. It's a whole different dynamic.

I'm sure the cost of support is an issue, but appeasing Viacom and Time Warner/AOL and Sony Studios and all the rest play a role. It's not cut and dried. I'm sure there's a lot of things that factor into why D* has never allowed a D* tuner to be included in a VCR or DVD burner or why there's never been a D* tuner in a PC card that would allow people to build their own satellite capable DVRs and media servers or why we'll probably never be able to record something on a D* DVR (HD or SD) and email or FTP it to a friend, even if the bandwidth allows. D* isn't operating in a vacuum. They can't just focus on keeping their customers happy. They also have to keep their suppliers happy too. They are middleman and are trying to balance maintaining relationships with their suppliers and satisfying their customers.

I wonder if more channels would buy the Tivo advertising feature that makes a commercial selectable to schedule a recording of that program if Tivo didn't offer HMO, if commercial skip couldn't be activated, if the boxes weren't so easy to hack?

Last edited by Crash_Corrigan on 06-16-2004 at 09:00 AM

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Dean Martin is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 12:47 PM
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Dean Martin
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quote:
I'm very interested in what Voom's DVR will look like.

How soon before Voom offers a PVR?

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>>> DirecTv Sold Stake in TiVo <<<

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