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>>> Local Channels Coming in 2004 - You can receive these local channels using any DIRECT <<<

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litzinger is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 02:36 AM
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litzinger
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Local Channels Coming in 2004 - You can receive these local channels using any DIRECT

I am one of the 72.5 markets coming later this year and punched in my zip code for fun on the DTV local channel website. It said the following message:

Local Channels coming in 2004. Equipment needs to be determined soon. You can receive these local channels using any DIRECTV® System.


The third sentence was very curious because that this the same wording DTV uses to describe DMA's whose locals are on the 101 slot.

Has this wording always been there for the "coming in 2004" locals or is it new?

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skaeight is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 02:43 AM
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skaeight
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It has always been worded this way. I'm guessing that this means you won't need a new reciever. This set of locals however will require a second dish, and probably some sort of new multi switch to combine 101 & 72.5 (or 101, 110, 119, & 72.5).

I'm pretty sure they're not mentioning the fact you will need a second dish because they don't officially have FCC approval to use the 72.5 slot, so they're being as vague as possible. FCC approval should be coming soon (fingers crossed):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=179542

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rlj5242 is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 02:54 AM
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You will probably need a receiver that is multi-sat capable. The ones built 10 years ago aren't going to work. To get the signal combined, they will probably use the same technique to combine 110 with 119. Shift the transponder frequencies and use a combiner. Currently the 110/119 feed has free transponders frequencies at 1-7, 9, 11, and 13-21.

-Robert

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caseyathompson is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 11:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rlj5242
You will probably need a receiver that is multi-sat capable. The ones built 10 years ago aren't going to work. To get the signal combined, they will probably use the same technique to combine 110 with 119. Shift the transponder frequencies and use a combiner. Currently the 110/119 feed has free transponders frequencies at 1-7, 9, 11, and 13-21.

-Robert



How do you think these secondary dishes will work with these Phase 3 dishes? I mean all I have out the back of mine is 4 un-labelled plugs...

Casey

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rlj5242 is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 06:28 PM
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rlj5242
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quote:
How do you think these secondary dishes will work with these Phase 3 dishes?
Right now, no one does. Current DirecTV receivers are configured to work with 2 satellite locations using the 22khz tone to switch. To get 110 in the mix, they use a special LNB that convert the frequencies for transponders 28, 30 & 32 down to 8, 10 & 12. A special diplexer is used to combine the signals from 110 and 119. The 119 input of the combiner has a filter to block the frequencies for transponders 1-21. This frees up the space for the new frequencies.

quote:
I mean all I have out the back of mine is 4 un-labelled plugs.
Everything I mention above happens inside the LNB housing with the new Phase III dishes. To get this to work with a Phase III dish, would take a new type of switch. Probably a 5 or 6 input model where 4 inputs connect to the Phase III dish and one or two more connect to the 72.5 dish. The same type of filtering and combining would happen inside the switch. This keeps everything compatible with all multi-sat receivers and is probably the cheapest method.

-Robert

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Dan Collins is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 07:13 PM
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All multi-sat capable DirecTV receivers are capable of driving DISEQC switches which can support 4 different satellite slots (and the Phase 3 dishes only look like 2).

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rlj5242 is offline Old Post 06-18-2004 07:43 PM
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quote:
All multi-sat capable DirecTV receivers are capable of driving DISEQC switches which can support 4 different satellite slots (and the Phase 3 dishes only look like 2).
I had heard that newer models supported this but I didn't think they all did. Then do you just upgrade the software to add this feature? Do you just upgrade receivers that need the new satellite? Is DISEQC backward compatible with the 22khz switches?

-Robert

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litzinger is offline Old Post 06-22-2004 08:57 PM
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litzinger
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quote:
Originally posted by rlj5242
Everything I mention above happens inside the LNB housing with the new Phase III dishes. To get this to work with a Phase III dish, would take a new type of switch. Probably a 5 or 6 input model where 4 inputs connect to the Phase III dish and one or two more connect to the 72.5 dish.


Don't you think it is safe to say only 4 inputs will be required...3 from the Phase III and 1 for the 72.5 single dish? All going into a new external multiplexer?

I just don't understand how DTV is able to keep the h/w solution so secret. If this truley does require new hardware, somebody must be out there making them. I hope DTV doesn't say, "Today the FCC approved our use of 72.5. We will now begin projects and take bids for developing the associated hardware."

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rlj5242 is offline Old Post 06-22-2004 09:46 PM
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rlj5242
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quote:
Don't you think it is safe to say only 4 inputs will be required...3 from the Phase III
You will ALWAYS need 4 inputs from the Phase III. One for right hand polarized frequencies from the 101 location. One for left hand polarized frequencies from the 101 location. One for right hand polarized frequencies from the 110/119 location. One for left hand polarized frequencies from the 110/119 location.

quote:
1 for the 72.5 single dish?
One would be needed if they are only using odd or even transponders. If they use both, they would need two inputs for both right and left hand polarized frequencies.

quote:
All going into a new external multiplexer?
It would be easier to put the filters, etc. in there rather than a bunch of combiners like the ones used to combine 110 and 119.

quote:
I just don't understand how DTV is able to keep the h/w solution so secret.
Legal contracts.

There is also Dan's DISEQC theory. I've heard that SOME (not all) multi-sat receivers are capable of this type of switching mode. It's similar to what Dish used in their SW64 switch. That switch worked with 3 satellite locations.

-Robert

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Dan Collins is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 03:56 AM
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Dan Collins
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quote:
Originally posted by rlj5242
I had heard that newer models supported this but I didn't think they all did. Then do you just upgrade the software to add this feature? Do you just upgrade receivers that need the new satellite? Is DISEQC backward compatible with the 22khz switches?

-Robert

According to reports, if you attach a DISEQC switch to a DirecTV Plus receiver today, it will be recognized (but of course, the receiver won't actually use its abilities, since it will only ever try to tune 2 slots). And yes, DISEQC is backwards compatible with 22KHz tone control.

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Solitarysoviet is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 11:28 AM
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I dont know what the hell your talking about, all that message was supposed to mean is that since the new sat went up locals are opening up on 119 and the equipment needed means you must have a dual LNB or better dish
there is no change in the way it works.... there is a $0 dish upgrade going on for these new markets....again all its talking about is that if you dont have access to 119 then you may need a newer dish that has more than 1 lnb... trust me I work for DTV

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skaeight is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 12:14 PM
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skaeight
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quote:
Originally posted by Solitarysoviet
I dont know what the hell your talking about, all that message was supposed to mean is that since the new sat went up locals are opening up on 119 and the equipment needed means you must have a dual LNB or better dish
there is no change in the way it works.... there is a $0 dish upgrade going on for these new markets....again all its talking about is that if you dont have access to 119 then you may need a newer dish that has more than 1 lnb... trust me I work for DTV



Is this post supposed to be a joke? I'm sorry but I think you've been misinformed, (as many CSR's are). The last set of locals that are going to be at 119 are being launched on Thursday. Any further sets of locals will be served from a yet to be approved 72.5 orbital postion. The OP's message only comes up when you put a zipcode that is listed as "Coming in 2004," AKA a "72.5 market." To receive these locals, a second 18" dish will be required.

All of this has been repeated many many times. Here is a press release dated June 22, 2004 announcing 4 additional markets at the 72.5 degree orbital slot. If you read the entire press release you will see that we know what we are talking about.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...894&newsLang=en


This is typical though, I called d* around a month ago inquiring about my locals (Johnstown-Altoona) and I was told I would need an eliptical dish. CSR's are the last to know about pretty much everything, but I can understand why. They don't want CSR's giving out information until it is official.

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Solitarysoviet is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 02:34 PM
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you were told you needed that dish because your locals are comming in on sat 119 (dual lnbs point to 101 and 119), if you needed another dish you would have to get another multi LNB dish becasue the 1 lnb dish isnt being distributed now(well in the near future its not going to be)...
besides sat 110 is almost not in use so if anything your if there wernt enough room on 119 or 101 it would be placed on that...
so what your saying is that DTV will require you to have at 5 or 6 lnbs (two 3lnb dishes) (or 4 if have a single round then later add a 3 lnb) to get what programming you are now and your very few locals??? thats not very cost efective to make people get another dish to get just their locals.... especially at only 3 dollars more a month than your current bill.... the free equipment alone would negate that price unless you went into a contract
we are doing a free dish upgrade right now that will let you upgrade to the 3 lnb dish so you can get locals..that might be what your talking about.

whats your zipcode? Ill check up on it at work tomorrow...

and Im a TSR not CSR...I work...

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rlj5242 is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 05:54 PM
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rlj5242
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quote:
Originally posted by Solitarysoviet
besides sat 110 is almost not in use
"Almost" not in use? The four HD channels and the Chinese language package fill the three transponders licensed to DirecTV at this orbital slot. Lyngsat

quote:
Originally posted by Solitarysoviet
so what your saying is that DTV will require you to have at 5 or 6 lnbs (two 3lnb dishes)
No. Minimum, those locations will need two 18" dishes. One for core programming and one for the locals. People with the Spanish language package or HD will need a Phase III and an 18" dish. There is no inexpensive one dish solution for satellites spaced that far apart.

-Robert

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skaeight is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 09:26 PM
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skaeight
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quote:
Originally posted by Solitarysoviet
you were told you needed that dish because your locals are comming in on sat 119 (dual lnbs point to 101 and 119), if you needed another dish you would have to get another multi LNB dish becasue the 1 lnb dish isnt being distributed now(well in the near future its not going to be)...
besides sat 110 is almost not in use so if anything your if there wernt enough room on 119 or 101 it would be placed on that...
so what your saying is that DTV will require you to have at 5 or 6 lnbs (two 3lnb dishes) (or 4 if have a single round then later add a 3 lnb) to get what programming you are now and your very few locals??? thats not very cost efective to make people get another dish to get just their locals.... especially at only 3 dollars more a month than your current bill.... the free equipment alone would negate that price unless you went into a contract
we are doing a free dish upgrade right now that will let you upgrade to the 3 lnb dish so you can get locals..that might be what your talking about.

whats your zipcode? Ill check up on it at work tomorrow...

and Im a TSR not CSR...I work...




Hey I hope you're right I would love to only need a phase III dish, however you aren't. Did you even read the press release I linked to? Here's a quote from it just incase you don't believe me:

quote:
Charleston, S.C., Greenville-New Bern, N.C., and Toledo and Youngstown, Ohio, will be among the 24 new markets that will receive local channels from DIRECTV following the relocation -- pending FCC approval -- of the DIRECTV 5 satellite to the Telesat-controlled orbital slot at 72.5 degrees West longitude (WL). Customers in those markets will require a second 18-inch dish to receive their local channels. The dish and installation will be provided at no charge.


As far as the use of 110 that won't work either. You do realize that Dish Network uses both 110 and 119 as well correct? Well Direct only has the use of 3 transponders at 110, which would be 28 30, & 32. That isn't a whole lot of space. They have a little more space at 119 ~ 11 transponders. Granted they've gotten creative with the use of these transponders, by launching a spot beam satellite.

So ask around at work, as to what's where and how much capacity there is at each orbital location. They don't have enough room to launch these lower markets from 101, 110, or 119:

quote:
Boise, Idaho Johnson City, Tenn.-Bristol, Va.
/Tenn.- Kingsport, Tenn.
Burlington, Vt. - Plattsburgh, N.Y. Johnstown-Altoona, Pa.
Cedar Rapids-Waterloo, Iowa Lincoln-Hastings, Neb.
Champaign-Springfield-Decatur, Ill. Peoria, Ill.
Chattanooga, Tenn. Sioux Falls, S.D.
Charleston, S.C. Springfield, Mo.
Columbia-Jefferson City, Mo. Syracuse, N.Y.
Davenport, Iowa Toledo, Ohio
Evansville, Ind. Traverse City, Mich.
Fort Smith, Ark. Waco-Temple-Bryan, Texas
Fort Wayne, Ind. Wausau, Wis.
Greenville-New Bern, N.C. Youngstown, Ohio


Check out any of the above markets. You will receive something along the lines of "equipment to be determined soon." That's not the message you get when you put in a zip for of of the 119 markets. It would say "You can receive these local channels using a DIRECTV® Multi-Satellite System."

Just to show you what I mean. Put in the zip code 25301, that is Charleston, WV which goes up Thursday and will be on 119. Then put in 15901, which is Johstown, PA and one of the 72.5 markets.

Last edited by skaeight on 06-23-2004 at 09:41 PM

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GuidoTKP is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 09:36 PM
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GuidoTKP
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quote:
Originally posted by Solitarysoviet
you were told you needed that dish because your locals are comming in on sat 119 (dual lnbs point to 101 and 119), if you needed another dish you would have to get another multi LNB dish becasue the 1 lnb dish isnt being distributed now(well in the near future its not going to be)...
besides sat 110 is almost not in use so if anything your if there wernt enough room on 119 or 101 it would be placed on that...
so what your saying is that DTV will require you to have at 5 or 6 lnbs (two 3lnb dishes) (or 4 if have a single round then later add a 3 lnb) to get what programming you are now and your very few locals??? thats not very cost efective to make people get another dish to get just their locals.... especially at only 3 dollars more a month than your current bill.... the free equipment alone would negate that price unless you went into a contract
we are doing a free dish upgrade right now that will let you upgrade to the 3 lnb dish so you can get locals..that might be what your talking about.

whats your zipcode? Ill check up on it at work tomorrow...

and a TSR not CSR...I work...



You should probably go read Doris because these guys are pretty much right we don't know what the equipment requirements are going to be but an 18 by 20 is not going to get the job done in this case, look up the zip code 83605 that will give you the same info that these people have been posting in here.and I know what you mean by TSR not CSR,Most of the TSR's I've worked with have been not too bright I hope your not one of those.If you want more info on this just pm me I'll let you know what I know (which isnt much) Oh by the way I work in CIS (customer instalation support)

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CalypsoCowboy is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 10:49 PM
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Did I read it correctly where the guy was a TSR at D*? Interesting.

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GuidoTKP is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 11:37 PM
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it's a designation used by the folks at protection plan to designate their techs from their reps

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threeonparfive is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 11:11 PM
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I see we've had no new updates from Mr. Solitarysoviet.

He must have gotten to work and discovered that everyone here was right and he was wrong about the new 72.5 locals.

Dang, how mbarrassing that? To come in the forums spouting off about being a "technical" rep and being in the know on what your company is doing, only to find out that you were wrong and your customers knew more than you. That would have to suck. I learned a long time ago that nobody who takes phone calls (and most retailers and installers) with DirecTV knows anything about what DirecTV is really doing.

When are DTV and retailers/installers going to learn to start having their employees purues the popular forums to learn what is really going on?

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skaeight is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 08:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by threeonparfive
I see we've had no new updates from Mr. Solitarysoviet.

He must have gotten to work and discovered that everyone here was right and he was wrong about the new 72.5 locals.

Dang, how mbarrassing that? To come in the forums spouting off about being a "technical" rep and being in the know on what your company is doing, only to find out that you were wrong and your customers knew more than you. That would have to suck. I learned a long time ago that nobody who takes phone calls (and most retailers and installers) with DirecTV knows anything about what DirecTV is really doing.

When are DTV and retailers/installers going to learn to start having their employees purues the popular forums to learn what is really going on?



Haha, couldn't have said it better my self. It's also funny how all of a sudden there are a ton of people saying, "I just found out I'll need a second dish for my locals, I don't want that because I don't like how that will look on my house, how do I"move"?"

The thing is ever since they announced these new markets, in January, it was known that a second dish would be required.

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