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>>> Official Serial Cable Support Request Thread <<<

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deveus1 is offline Old Post 06-05-2002 08:17 AM
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deveus1
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Exclamation Official Serial Cable Support Request Thread

Ok.

There seems to be a lot of people disappointed with the drop in Serial Cable support with the upgrade to 3.0 and I wanted to consolidate these to maybe convince TiVo to bring it back. I had two friends today (who don't read these boards) come to me complaining about how theirTiVo suddenly stopped working. I had to explain to them how TiVo dropped a documented feature that was working perfectly without even telling users via e-mail or TiVo Message. Anyone that didn't read these boards was quite confused and many of them called Tech Support. This probably cost TiVo a bit of money, just to deal with customers over the phone.

Quite frankly, I find this absurd. I love my TiVo and I've been very pleased with all the services that TiVo has provided as a company up to this point. However, ripping a feature out of the OS that worked fine for a lot TiVo customers (at least in my area) for no good reason just seems odd. Maybe there's more to it, but I'm really disappointed. The IR Blasters just suck and serial control was definitely a lot better. Why even include the cable in the box if you're just gonna remove support for it? Not to mention the people who lost programming due to their serial connection not working anymore.

Anyways, if you have anything else to add or if you're just as bothered as I am about this feature being removed, sound off. Thanks!

-Deveus

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kdmorse is offline Old Post 06-05-2002 08:27 AM
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kdmorse
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Please clarify...

Are you complaining that SA's with V3.0 can no longer control DirecTV Receivers via Serial? If this is the case, it's news to me - but certainly a valid complaint. It was a documented selling point of the SA's (and as you point out - the whole reason for including the cable)

Or are you complaining that SA's with V3.0 can no longer control some (digital?) cable boxes via serial? Some time back there was a post from RB explaining the logic behind this decision. While we may not all agree with it or like it, there were (somewhat) valid reasons for pulling it. It was never (afaik) a documented feature, it just happened to work in some cases. I believe we were told that the feature would be ironed out, and reappear in a future releases.

If #1, I'm shocked that they would do such a thing - have at em...

If #2, there's no real point to complaining en mass here, as (I believe) that Tivo has acknowledged this as an important feature, and it will return in a software update some day.

-Ken

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deveus1 is offline Old Post 06-05-2002 09:48 AM
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deveus1
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It's #2.
Hmm... I must've missed that thread.

I purchased a Series 2 SA unit that completely controlled my digital cable box via serial connection. While they used the term "Satellite Receiver" in the manual (if I recall correctly), this feature was working absolutely fine with my digital cable box, as it did with every other person I've talked to in MD with digital cable. Upon upgrading to 3.0, I no longer had the option and was forced into using the IR Blasters, which are much less reliable.

Do you recall the reasoning behind it and if it will definitely be back or not. I find it hard to believe that this was an unsupported feature when the serial cable was in the box, menus for the Tivo listed this as an option, and the serial connection instructions were included in both the install guide and the quick reference sheet.

I know it sounds like a silly thing to get worked up over, but it just makes no sense and I don't think TiVo handled it very well. If it ain't broke, why fix it.

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kdmorse is offline Old Post 06-05-2002 10:08 AM
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kdmorse
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Bloody @#%&! I have got to remember NOT to hit the back button while doing a Post Preview - I loose my entire post every time.

So, here's the short version:

Original Thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...?threadid=55073

-Ken

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jeffspam is offline Old Post 06-05-2002 11:21 AM
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jeffspam
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Unfortunately, my Explorer 2000 doesn't have a serial port for it to be controlled, but if some of you do have boxes with this ability, well...

Bring it back, Tivo!!!

(and in the meantime, figure out some way to get more reliable channel changes... 'cause, k'now, my tivo is pretty much useless when it can't even change the channel right!)

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dan is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 11:14 AM
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dan
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I had convinced some friends to try Tivo, because I thought that Tivo was a good company. My friends got the new 60 Hour Series 2, and hooked up the serial control cable and it worked! Took them 2 seconds. They got upgraded to 3.0 after a couple of weeks and it stopped working with no warning! I had a hard time explaining why such a good company would do such a stupid thing. I have basically had to reevaluate why I thought that Tivo was a good company.

I am very disappointed in Tivo management for this incompetent and short sighted decision.

Claims that this decision was made only after careful consideration serve only to confirm that an unacceptable level of incompetence exists within Tivo, most likely at the senior and executive management levels.

Tivo you need to look long and hard at your current leadership and figure out who is now out of their league as Tivo moves from being a small entrepreneurial company to a mid-sized mainstream entertainment company. It is probably the entrepreneurs who have been with Tivo since the beginning, and really got Tivo going, and who deserve our sincere thanks, that now need to move on.

These individuals should step aside and allow some professionals with a backbone, and real experience in running a large company to actually run Tivo, or you may as well start downloading ads for SONICblue’s Replay TV to everyone’s Tivo boxes, because that is where the Tivo customers are going to end up.

Sonicblue is really pissing off a lot of people with their commercial skip and unit to unit copy capability, and they are doing this in order to provide their customers with better features, you got to hand it to them, they got balls! Tivo doesn’t have the backbone to enable a serial control port, because the cable companies might get mad! Oh boo hoo, if you guys are really that scared of pissing anybody off, pack it up and do something safer, like selling VCRs.

It is a brave new world of pervasive computing out there, and if Tivo does not wake up and get more aggressive about bringing new features to their customers, other companies will step into the breech, and Tivo will start down the slippery slope of loosing market share.

Just because Tivo has a feature that some cable providers do not support does not make the feature undesirable.

Using the faulty logic that “users will call their cable company demanding a new or upgraded cable box to support the serial interface, which would then overwhelm the cable companies…” would lead one to believe that users might call their TV, amplifier, and DVD manufactures demanding upgrades (why doesn’t my amplifier have Dolby 5.1, why doesn’t my TV have component input, etc.. obviously this is ludicrous and does not happen.

Serial control is a minor issue, but exposes weakness in Tivo management, mainly in their ability to provide critical thought and leadership to Tivo customers, but of course that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Tivo, do not forget who you work for. (hint, it is NOT the cable companies or the networks).

Dan

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kdmorse is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 01:19 PM
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kdmorse
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Several people are reporting that this feature has magically reappeared some time recently. I can't speak one way or the other - but you may want to give the tivo in question another try. Worst that can happen is it still won't work

-Ken

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themango is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 05:08 PM
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themango
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quote:
Originally posted by dan

Using the faulty logic that “users will call their cable company demanding a new or upgraded cable box to support the serial interface, which would then overwhelm the cable companies…” would lead one to believe that users might call their TV, amplifier, and DVD manufactures demanding upgrades (why doesn’t my amplifier have Dolby 5.1, why doesn’t my TV have component input, etc.. obviously this is ludicrous and does not happen.



The problem is more likely that enabling such a feature that does not work unilaterally is not a good idea when trying to sell a machine that is user friendly.

Enough people get confused now with the serial cable being in the box and trying to use it with their cable box, and its not even supported. Imagine if the user manual said "here's a serial cable: cross your fingers, it might work"

Until the cable companies have upgraded the software on cable boxes across the board, the feature will likely not be released to the masses.

Finally, correct me if I am wrong, but was the feature ever released? I assume it was in beta builds of 3.0, eventually was decided to be pulled. Did series 2 units ship with it or something?

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markp99 is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 07:11 PM
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It appears as if only the AT&T-branded Series 2 units are able to get Serial support to MOT DCT-2000 cable boxes...

Or, for the more adventurous, embeem has posted an interesting bit of functionality:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...ighlight=serial
...for Series 2 and CABLEBOX firmware 7.54

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KermitTheFrog is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 09:06 PM
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KermitTheFrog
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This sure would be nice, ever since AT&T upgraded me to 7.54 on my Digital box, my channel changing has been unaccurate at least once a day. I've tried the forts, and swaping out the cable boxes and all.. somehow it just doesn't love me the way it did before

Serial Connectivity would fix this issue so easily. *Sigh* guess i'm just bitching...

KC

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dan is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 10:02 PM
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dan
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quote:
Originally posted by themango


The problem is more likely that enabling such a feature that does not work unilaterally...

Finally, correct me if I am wrong, but was the feature ever released?



Point 1: Features that do not work (all of the time? Nothing works 100%... maybe you meant 42% of the time?) I am sure you have at some device in your home that has some functionality or connections to things that you don't have.

I have a JVC amplifier that has a CompuLink port (what the heck is that?) and (gasp) it came with a Cable (ahhhh! I keep trying to plug it in and it doesn't work!!!) I was able to remove some earwax with the pointy end of the cable thingy :-)

Any device that connects to another manufacturer’s device typically carries a fairly wide reaching caveat as to their ability to guarantee it will work. Basically no manufacturer can “guarantee” that another manufacturer’s equipment or service will behave in a predictable fashion now or in the future. They can only guarantee how their device works.

I don't have any other CompuLink components and I really don't care. I did look at the cable, but it did not send me (or presumably all of the other JVC component owners) into paroxysms of fear and confusion.

Point 2: Is serial control of cable boxes a released feature? This is a more significant point than “unilateral features”. This feature is not (IMHO) a released feature. But, enough people know about it, and / or have accidentally hooked it up, that the cat is out of the bag.

My friends hooked up the serial cable without much thought. When they told me about, I responded that “that doesn’t work, thinking that they must be mistaken about using this feature”. After confirming that their Serial cable was working on their series II out of the box (I think they had 2.5 software), I was at a loss to explain why this was so. The directions appear to indicate that you could not use the serial port to control a cable box, but that has not stopped many people from hooking it up.

This would appear to be Tivo’s only defense, but they have lost any chance of plausible deniability (i.e. what serial control?, that must have been a bug that we fixed…).

Dan

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Stu_Bee is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 11:00 PM
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Stu_Bee
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Serial IS a documented Feature

I don't quite understand the posts that says that the Serial Cable communication is an undocumented feature. On my Series 2 manual (AT&T), the product comes with a Serial cable, and is actually documented in the Manual as working. when a coworker (that has at&t digital) was trying to get this to work he called Tivo and they said that it would be working in the next version (3.0).
I guess they were incorrect again.

- So it is a documented feature in the Manual that came with Tivo.
- Tivo said it would be in 3.0, but I guess they changed their minds.

Any info on a Series 2 AT&T tivo serial connection actually working would be appreciated.

PS. Tivo has removed the original manuals from being online (the one that came with Series2)...but here's a quote from the new v3.0 manual that's online now.:

"Your recorder needs to send a signal to the cable box
or satellite receiver to change channels. It can do this through an IR (infrared) or serial
connection. We recommend you use the serial connection if possible, because it is easier,
more reliable, and faster than an IR connection."

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markp99 is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 11:10 PM
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MrMusic reported that he got Serial to work on his AT&T TiVo unit. Search for his recent posts. There were a couple other AT&T successes posted here recently.

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Stu_Bee is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 11:52 PM
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Stu_Bee
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Will try it again

quote:
Originally posted by markp99
MrMusic reported that he got Serial to work on his AT&T TiVo unit. Search for his recent posts. There were a couple other AT&T successes posted here recently.


Thanks for the info! I've told him to try it again since the 3.0 upgrade occured to see if the serial option is now available for his cable unit.

Hmm..Maybe these threads need to be merged.

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themango is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 12:44 AM
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themango
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quote:
Originally posted by dan


Point 1: Features that do not work (all of the time? Nothing works 100%... maybe you meant 42% of the time?) I am sure you have at some device in your home that has some functionality or connections to things that you don't have.



I think unilaterally was a bad word choice for conveying my thought. What I am saying is that it would be bad practice for TiVo to introduce a feature that is not able to be used by the majority of cable subscribers. It looks like at this point only ATT cable folks have the firmware on their cable boxes to support this. I have Comcast and do not have the correct firmware, as I will assme do the vast majority of Comcast customers.

For one, just think of the increased call volume from people who cannot get their serial connection to work. Those calls cost TiVo money.

There are so many good reasons for not introducing this now, but I'm going to leave it here. Keep in mind that I would love to have serial control just as much as you, but it just ain't happening yet.

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drossn is offline Old Post 06-13-2002 12:31 AM
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IR Blaster be unplugged to use Serial?

I've tried to switch to serial as well, since the IR Blaster seems to have gotten more error-prone lately (roughly in conjunction with the 3.0 upgrade). I've had my Tivo for 3 months now, and haven't had any misrecorded programs until after 3.0 - now I've already had two in as many weeks. So here is what I've tried...

TIVO: AT&T Series2 (SW Ver. 3.0)
Cable Provider: AT&T (Chicago Suburb)
Cable Box: Motorola DCT-2000 (DB-9 Serial port)

I've tried switching to using the Serial control (the option *is* there), but the Tivo claims the test was unsuccessful. I do still have the IR Blaster hooked-up as well as the Serial cable. Does the Tivo need you to only have one or the other hooked-up? I mean if the Blaster is still connected to the Tivo, will this cause the serial to be turned-off? I followed the instructions in the AT&T Setup manual for the Tivo and it specifically said to hook-up BOTH, so it can start using the Serial when supported (or something to that effect).

It still could be the firmware version of the Motorola box, but I *think * it was 7.54 last time I looked (I'm at work now, but I'll check again when home - might be 7.44, if so...well there you go). When AT&T pushes the firmware out, is it a national thing or something the local AT&T provider/franchise/whatever does?

Oh, by the way I got the $4.99 3COM USB adapter from TigerDirect a week ago, unplugged the Tivo, plugged it in to Tivo, ran a 50' CAT5 patch cable back to my Linksys Router (which does NAT on my AT&T Broadband Internet connection), plugged the Tivo back in and then set the DHCP dialing prefix. Worked like a charm. Disconnected the modem, hopefuly for good.

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markp99 is offline Old Post 06-13-2002 12:42 AM
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You seem to have the right config to make this work (lucky dog):

1. AT&T Tivo w/3.0
2. MOT DCT-2000 w/7.54

Just seeing a menu option for "Serial Setup" is the hard part. I would suggest you UNPLUG the IR-Blaster and reboot with just the Serial cable attached.

Good luck!

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Breacagan is offline Old Post 06-13-2002 01:16 AM
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Breacagan
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quote:
Originally posted by themango
For one, just think of the increased call volume from people who cannot get their serial connection to work. Those calls cost TiVo money.
If the postings in this forum are any indicator, they probably get a lot more calls about botched recordings due to IR blaster problems. "Increased call volume" smells like an old red herring.

At the very least, they should enable a backdoor code sequence in the cable box setup menu. I'm sure that anyone who knowledgeably enables backdoors and enters an arcane code sequence is not going to be calling when the serial option does not work.

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Last edited by Breacagan on 06-13-2002 at 01:22 AM

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Jay Levitt is offline Old Post 06-13-2002 02:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by byronshock
At the very least, they should enable a backdoor code sequence in the cable box setup menu. I'm sure that anyone who knowledgeably enables backdoors and enters an arcane code sequence is not going to be calling when the serial option does not work.


Anyone who can do that can also use embeem's script - which is for all TiVos, not just Series 2.

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TiVoPony is offline Old Post 06-13-2002 02:32 AM
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TiVoPony
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quote:
Originally posted by markp99
You seem to have the right config to make this work (lucky dog):

1. AT&T Tivo w/3.0
2. MOT DCT-2000 w/7.54

Just seeing a menu option for "Serial Setup" is the hard part. I would suggest you UNPLUG the IR-Blaster and reboot with just the Serial cable attached.

Good luck!



Hi guys,

Just getting caught up on this. Yes, what Mark has posted is correct. Only the AT&T recorder with 3.0 supports serial control of a cable box. You must have a DCT-2000 with the appropriate software release.

AT&T is working very closely with their vendor to get the code upgrades out to their installed base of DCT-2000's.

The previous success some of you may have had using serial was not a supported feature, but simply a benefit from some in-progress development code that should not have been accessible.

Again, the released version of serial support for cable boxes is only available with the AT&T branded recorder.

Pony

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