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TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
>>> Absolutely outraged <<<

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Pan Chun is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 09:15 PM
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Pan Chun
Gone now

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 149

quote:
Originally posted by steuert
One of the main reasons most of us bought TiVos was to reduce or get rid of advertising; now TiVo itself seems to be devising new schemes to cram ads down our throats. IMHO, the arguments that we "should have known" the ads were coming, or that they could have been avoided by going through some preventative rigmarole in advance, are not legitimate.
TiVo did not sell itself with the "you won't get ads" promise. Anyone who purchased on that basis did so erroneously. If that was a user's motivation for it, the problem is, frankly, their own.

I bought TiVo to timeshift video. NOT to avoid advertising. (If I *can* avoid ads, I will...but it was NOT a motivating factor and TiVo NEVER advertised itself as an ad avoidance system.)

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stormsweeper is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 09:24 PM
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stormsweeper
How *you* doin'?

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 443

You can turn on back doors and see the items on the to-do list.

If it REALLY bothers you, remove Discovery Channel from your lineup.

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papabrody is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 09:32 PM
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papabrody
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Registered: Apr 2001
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I feel for DT, b/c it is frustrating when any CE product does not act in a "seemingly" consistent and predictable manner. Unexpected channel changes and the associated loss of buffer would "appear" to make the TIVO unpredicatable and inconsistent. OTOH, if you stay up all night to watch something specifically at 4 in the morning, common sense does seems to warrant recording the show. What if DT had mistakenly/accidently changed channels while watching the buffer? He would have been in the same situation.

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DanTimis is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 09:43 PM
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DanTimis
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Registered: Jun 2002
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Posts: 4

Angry

I have cable, not satellite. TiVo uses a modem to download the program. I know that TiVo makes phone calls in the middle of the night. I was never told that it could change channels in the middle of the night too.

I read this article a few days ago:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-928864.html?tag=fd_lede

Here is a quote:

-----
TiVo does not have similar promotions planned for the U.S. market, Baer said.
-----

I read this as "this is not going to happen in the U.S." but now I understand that all it means is "we are doing the exact same thing in the U.S. only not in prime time, and only with shorter programs."

Earlier in the same article:

-----
"In retrospect, it may have been a good idea to send a message to the subscribers," TiVo spokeswoman Rebecca Baer said.
-----

It would still be a good idea for TiVo to send a message explaining how and when these promotions are recorded. If I had read such a message, and then forgot about it, I would have only myself to blame.

When they changed the features and they added the ability to record a show you are watching either in "Best Quality" or "New Portion Only (Basic Quality)" they sent a message about it. Why not send a message now, since the way TiVo works has changed again?

My only mistake was to count on the features as advertised by TiVo.

I love my TiVo, and all I want is to be able to enjoy it for years to come. And to those who are blaming me, I have this to say: if we are not standing up now, the next unadvertised change TiVo will make will piss you off too. What will be next? The fast forward button will stop working during commercials?

Dan

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MighTiVo is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 09:59 PM
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MighTiVo
TiVotarian

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1700

Recording an advertisment, suggestion, recording the guide data as part of program data, accidental channel change, power outage, forgotten recording, system restart at 2am, recording starts after current buffer and you accidently FF too far and reach the end of buffer, the list is long...

In order to keep harmony in your home and maintain Feng Shui follow TiVo buffer rule number one.

If it is important HIT RECORD!

Sorry you lost the World Cup game, I agree it should be in the ToDo list and you should be able to cancel it from the ToDo list but not remove it from a hidden position in the season pass manager at the bottom of the list.

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themango is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:04 PM
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themango
Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Weston, Florida
Posts: 405

Had he paused the game when he left the room, would the channel still have changed for the paid programming (where paused would indicate the TV was being used -- realizing that after 30 minutes it would begin to play)?

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grecorj is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:05 PM
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grecorj
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2651

Hmmm....I sympathize with Dan for missing the game, but does TiVo really need to change something so that if by chance you are watching tv in the early morning on a Monday and walk away at 358am for 25 minutes you don't get hosed? Sounds like a very limited set of circumstances to me. Plus, I'm sure TiVo "asked" you at 358am if it could change the station -- you just weren't there to say "no".

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andyf is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:11 PM
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andyf
Long time TiVo user

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 305

quote:
Originally posted by grecorj
Hmmm....I sympathize with Dan for missing the game, but does TiVo really need to change something so that if by chance you are watching tv in the early morning on a Monday and walk away at 358am for 25 minutes you don't get hosed? Sounds like a very limited set of circumstances to me. Plus, I'm sure TiVo "asked" you at 358am if it could change the station -- you just weren't there to say "no".


Let's suppose it did ask and you selected no. Then you see your phone bill has increased by $10 that month and it's TiVos fault (you all know why!). TiVo is in a no win situation here. Either they're going to record the guide data at some time on some channel that will tic somebody off, or the phone bill will be higher... Catch22.

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DanTimis is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:12 PM
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DanTimis
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quote:
Originally posted by stormsweeper
You can turn on back doors and see the items on the to-do list.

If it REALLY bothers you, remove Discovery Channel from your lineup.



Thanks for the advice. How do I turn on back doors?

Dan

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kazymyr is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:13 PM
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kazymyr
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: The twinless city.
Posts: 49

Here's a suggestion: make a wishlist for "teleworld" - it'll show all the upcoming instances of the auto-recorded programs, with a checkmark next to them (even though they will still not show in the ToDo list). You can uncheck them, and hopefully they won't record anymore. I haven't tried this myself, but it should work.

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dllewel is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:15 PM
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dllewel
Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 28

Due to the many ways to lose a buffer (accident or not), I agree it is best practice to hit record for anything important your watching.

I also feel that Dan wasn't in the wrong thinking that he could watch his TV live and un-interrupted. Just because TiVo is great at recording things doesn't mean it shouldn't be reliable to watch live broadcasts too!

I think the best thing for TiVo to do is to add these kinds of promotions to the standard to-do list, so that everyone is more aware of them- without having to enable a backdoor.

my 2 cents... David.

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brott is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:18 PM
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brott
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 442

It is only TV, however, this issue is more about frustration than anything else. Sure TiVo does a lot of things right, but even TiVo can use some improvement. Why else are we paying for the service? It seems very reasonably to me to use Xaa's suggestion of having a 90 minute timeout for Teleworld Paid Programming. While this still could result in the same issue, it is much less likely to be an issue. 90 minutes is well beyond the 30-minute buffer and there would already be an expectation of losing some programming.

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stormsweeper is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:33 PM
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stormsweeper
How *you* doin'?

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by DanTimis
I have cable, not satellite. TiVo uses a modem to download the program. I know that TiVo makes phone calls in the middle of the night. I was never told that it could change channels in the middle of the night too.

I read this article a few days ago:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-928864.html?tag=fd_lede

Here is a quote:

-----
TiVo does not have similar promotions planned for the U.S. market, Baer said.
-----

I read this as "this is not going to happen in the U.S." but now I understand that all it means is "we are doing the exact same thing in the U.S. only not in prime time, and only with shorter programs."

Earlier in the same article:

-----
"In retrospect, it may have been a good idea to send a message to the subscribers," TiVo spokeswoman Rebecca Baer said.
-----

It would still be a good idea for TiVo to send a message explaining how and when these promotions are recorded. If I had read such a message, and then forgot about it, I would have only myself to blame.




These are dissimilar situations. The Shery Crow thing is a Showcase item, somethign that has been around for awhile. The UK situation involved them actually recording a full length program.

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murgatroyd is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 10:51 PM
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murgatroyd
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 3825

I agree with all the users who suggest that if you are watching something live and really want to make sure nothing dumps the buffer, hit record.

Especially in the wee hours of the morning, it's easy to screw up with the remote, accidentally change the channel, and dump the buffer.

I sympathize with the comment by TiVo Al, where he says:

quote:
I do not like to turn on record mode unless necessary to catch the end of something unless I know I will be away for over 30 minutes. There are others that have their hard drives filled and would lose something else they purposefully recorded to do this.


But the plain fact of the matter is, you can shoot yourself in the foot trying to out-think your TiVo, too. I have a bunch of stuff on the TiVo right now which I plan to watch and delete, or save snippets to tape. I don't have the room to mark everything SUID so I'm bumping up the expiration date everyday to save stuff until my day off when I can take care of it.

So I've been going through my To Do list, killing stuff I've decided I really don't want to watch, or can record sometime later. I nuked something on a high-priority SP and thought I was okay. ("Oh, I don't need to record this, I'm watching live...." says I.)

But my TiVo, seeing that I had told it not to record that show from my SP, obligingly looked for something else to record for me, and picked up a SP for something that was so low down on the priority list, I had forgotten it was there. Luckily I was there to say NO, don't change the channel.

Jan

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foo monkey is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:01 PM
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foo monkey
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sorry I'm late

I want a pony.

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Kaokulk is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:05 PM
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Kaokulk
Member

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Indiana, USA, Earth
Posts: 121

All right, everybody take a breath...

When reading Dan's first post, I noticed that he was a new member. Therefore, he probably did not know about Teleworld.

Dan, TeleWorld is recorded EVERY Monday morning, unless you are recording a during that time. (I notcied that there are two Thursday TeleWorlds this week too.)

It has nothing to do with the current UK/ Ms. Crow problems (except that her video is recorded during that time) - if TiVo had not had an agreement with Best Buy, TeleWorld would STILL have been recorded.

Since your cable box / satellite decoder is on 24/7, there is no way that TiVo can know if you are watching a program or not. It throws up a message warning you, but that doesn't help if you leave the room.

I feel for you Dan, and I'll bet it's now a case of "once bitten, twice shy".

But understand that the current controversies have little to do with your current problem.

I doubt that there are many people who use the buffer at 4:00am, your case is probably pretty unique.

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Pan Chun is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:08 PM
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Pan Chun
Gone now

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 149

quote:
Originally posted by DanTimis
And to those who are blaming me, I have this to say: if we are not standing up now, the next unadvertised change TiVo will make will piss you off too. What will be next? The fast forward button will stop working during commercials?

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Xaa is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:23 PM
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Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

quote:
Originally posted by Kaokulk
Since your cable box / satellite decoder is on 24/7, there is no way that TiVo can know if you are watching a program or not.


Sure it knows. If there has been IR activity. This is the measure it uses when deciding to record suggestions or not. In Dan's case, TIVO KNEW HE WAS WATCHING TV as he pressed pause 25 minutes prior.

I know it's not hard to press record, but it's also not that tough for Tivo to make this less intrusive.

Let's stop defending Tivo on this. They are wrong. The ads and the promotion are ok. I even like them. Changing the channel when you know a guy is watching live TV (based on Tivo's own criterea) is wrong.

Xaa

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timf is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:25 PM
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timf
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Metro Detroit, MI & Denver, CO
Posts: 190

Dan, are you running version 3.0? If so, TiVo gets guide and showcases data from a broadcast on Monday mornings at 4am Eastern. This would have caused your TiVo to change channels, not the Sheryl Crow video. It just happens that the service data broadcast ("Advanced Paid Programming") does not take up the full 30 minute timeslot, so they run a short Teleworld program after it.

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pv is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:33 PM
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pv
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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Chicago,IL,USA
Posts: 267

Come on. Every program out there, even those stupid Ron Popeil things, are vitally important to *someone*. If tivo steered around every 'critical' program, there would never be a window for this at all.

The best way around this, as someone here said, is to not second-guess tivo. If you're going to be watching something live you don't want interrupted, tell tivo by recording it. If it's sports, make sure to pad on an hour too. As of 3.0, even upgrade calls will honor a recording in progress.

You can't program around every possible exception. The only alternative is to make everything manual (the digital VCR). Tivo is not a digital VCR - it's a robot that has no idea that you want control of your tv unless you tell it. Rightfully IMAO, it assumes that if you haven't scheduled a recording, and aren't at the tv when it asks, that it can do stuff.

As of 3.0, a good portion of the guide content will be downloaded via teleworld if possible. In other words, there's going to be more opportunities for stuff like this to happen, and if you force teleworld out of the loop, you'll have longer phone-home calls and possibly even miss some content. PV

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