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>>> Absolutely outraged <<<

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Uther is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:36 PM
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Uther
King of Britons

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1577

quote:
Originally posted by Xaa
Sure it knows. If there has been IR activity. This is the measure it uses when deciding to record suggestions or not. In Dan's case, TIVO KNEW HE WAS WATCHING TV as he pressed pause 25 minutes prior.

I know it's not hard to press record, but it's also not that tough for Tivo to make this less intrusive.

Let's stop defending Tivo on this. They are wrong. The ads and the promotion are ok. I even like them. Changing the channel when you know a guy is watching live TV (based on Tivo's own criterea) is wrong.

Xaa


You are assuming he pressed pause. He just says he "went away from the TV" and expected TiVo to record for another 1/2 hour. I think the Teleworld does have the same priority as a suggestion, so if he had pressed pause, he would have been ok. ?

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Xaa is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:40 PM
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Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

Yep I assumed he pressed Pause. Dan can you clarify?

Xaa

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Xaa is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:43 PM
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Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

quote:
Originally posted by pv
Come on. Every program out there, even those stupid Ron Popeil things, are vitally important to *someone*. If tivo steered around every 'critical' program, there would never be a window for this at all.





You missed the point PV.

I'm not saying Tivo should steer around a schedule.

I'm saying it should steer around a user watching Live TV. It's simple, and already implemented for suggestions. All they need to do is extend the window from 30 to 60 or even better 90 minutes. If the user hasn't pressed a key in 90 minutes, switch the channel. The buffer already would have cycled three times and it is MUCH less likely that theuser is still watching.

Hell I've taken craps that lasted 25 minutes.

Xaa

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Doh is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:46 PM
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Doh
Advanced Member

Registered: May 2001
Location: Washington, D.C., USA
Posts: 545

I'd just like to point out that recording everything isn't a panacea. I, like a lot of people (believe it or not) have an unmodified Tivo with 30 hours of space, and sometimes I count on using the buffer as an alternative to recording programs.

Recording a World Cup game at best (which is the equivalent of the buffer) would take up something like 6 hours of that space, which would probably involve a fair amount of space management. If Dan had recorded the program, he might have had to delete 5-6 hours of programming he wanted to watch just to avoid problems created by Tivo deciding to record a paid advertisement.

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HTH is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:52 PM
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HTH
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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3582

quote:
Originally posted by Xaa
Hell I've taken craps that lasted 25 minutes.

Have you considered Gamblers Anonymous?

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Xaa is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:53 PM
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Xaa
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LOL.

HTH, I wish I could last at a craps table for 25 minutes. I seem to run out of money first.

I was referring to.....oh nevermind.

Xaa

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dgh is offline Old Post 06-10-2002 11:55 PM
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dgh
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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Xaa
Hell I've taken craps that lasted 25 minutes.


Now that's information that I didn't need

I agree though that TiVo could stand to be less aggressive in recording suggestions etc. (except when in standby.)

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tom_h is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 12:34 AM
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tom_h
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Creating the wishlist for teleworld wont stop it anymore, it still sucks the info out of the recording after you made it. Creating a wishlist and cancelling the recording also doesnt stop it, it will still record on its own time into its own space. Deleting it from the "todo" list with backdoors enabled wont stop it unless you do it just a few hours prior to its recording.

Walters - let me be concise and clear. At this point I dont think anyone cares about the yellow star. I think more people are ticked that they've been repeatedly told to either use their product in a different way to step around the way tivo implemented this, or they're angry because they've been told they have no right to be angry or to have an opinion.

Wrong on both counts.

I'm mostly cranked that this could have been done a lot of ways that would have been palatable to everyone, achieved what tivo did, and not create this level of grouchiness. And all tivo had to do was float the idea here and the resulting discussion would have given them the blueprint. But they not only didnt ask, they studiously avoided mentioning it until we all got the lexus promo.

Bad, bad, bad.

Oh and Pan, I *did* buy my tivo to avoid advertising. Its got those fast forward and skippy buttons on the remote and neither the box nor the service manual nor any agreements I've read suggested that I would have advertisements stuck on me, or that I should complacently agree to them and they way they were implemented. If thats how you like it, thats swell, I fully support your right to accept this the way it is.

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Pan Chun is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 12:48 AM
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Pan Chun
Gone now

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 149

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
Oh and Pan, I *did* buy my tivo to avoid advertising.
A benefit, to be sure...but neither advertised nor "supported" as such by TiVo. To indemnify them on any level for something they never promised you would even have full capability for doing is just foolish. All they ever really promised was digital timeshifting. The fact that you can FF and RWD and all those other VCR-type functions are a bonus...but not expressly promised in any advertisement (except "pause live TV") or Service Agreement that I ever read.

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Otto is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 12:55 AM
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Otto

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It's worth noting that a D-Tivo with 2 tuners wouldn't have this same kind of problem.



...I had nothing else to say, I just wanted to note that.

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Xaa is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 12:59 AM
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Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
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quote:
Originally posted by Otto
It's worth noting that a D-Tivo with 2 tuners wouldn't have this same kind of problem.



...I had nothing else to say, I just wanted to note that.



Unless a suggestion or scheduled recording was taking place on the other tuner....

Xaa

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tom_h is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 01:11 AM
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tom_h
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Pan Chun
A benefit, to be sure...but neither advertised nor "supported" as such by TiVo. To indemnify them on any level for something they never promised you would even have full capability for doing is just foolish. All they ever really promised was digital timeshifting. The fact that you can FF and RWD and all those other VCR-type functions are a bonus...but not expressly promised in any advertisement (except "pause live TV") or Service Agreement that I ever read.


Well we havent delved into september 11th comparisons, but by this measure the box isnt assured to do anything and anything done is a-ok.

We can argue each other to the floor without resolve. But I'm tempted to do so anyhow.

"TV YOUR WAY" is the motto, rallying cry and sprayed all over everything from the promo materials to the ads to the cardboard standups in the store to the manuals.

Getting ads beamed into my box I cant delete is NOT my way. Getting sitcoms beamed into the box that you cant stop or delete is NOT my way. Sheryl Crow videos and feng shui are not interesting to me and are hence NOT my way. Having the thing roll off a half hour of a sports show in favor of more feng-shui sure as doody wouldnt be my way.

Sorry but I refuse to be an apologist that looks for every route to explain away this poor implementation of a good idea.

I wish smart folks like us had a chance to really look at whats been lost the last few years:

- Tivo Takes and our beloved Daphne...gone
- Showcases and Tivolution magazine...shells of their former selves
- 800#...gone
- Forced ads and tv shows you cant delete...new
- Philips and Sony no longer branding the product
- Cant get service and warranty at anyone except best buy
- Customer service calls going from 5-10 minutes to 1+ hours
- Price increases

It just seems to me that we're getting less and less value for our spent dollars.

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dgh is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 01:26 AM
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dgh
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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
It just seems to me that we're getting less and less value for our spent dollars.


Welcome to the post technology-bubble era. It can be a real letdown.

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(Now only 31 years until I'm allowed to be opinionated!)

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markp99 is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 01:30 AM
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markp99
TakoKichi

Registered: Mar 2002
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This Daphne?

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Dale Sorel is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 01:40 AM
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Dale Sorel
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smak is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 02:12 AM
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smak
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Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Studio City, CA USA
Posts: 4610

There's really 2 questions here. Should tivo record off of teleworld instead of via modem, and did tivo try to change to teleworld, even though he was watching TV.

it's not that he left for less than 30 minutes, but that nothing on the remote was pressed for 30 minutes. Tivo doesn't ACTUALLY know you're there or not there, it only knows based on remote presses. So, if you start watching something live, and don't hit the remote, that is part of the time TIVO starts to count from. Since i think the coverage has no commercials except for the half, it's probably likely he didn't hit the remote while he was watching, so Tivo's count starts from when the last remote was pressed, not when he physically leaves.

I'm sure if you took a poll, most people would tell you to download the guides via some channel early in the morning, rather than via the modem.

A 1 in 1000 thing can happen like this, because overall it's for the greater good.

And tom, you realize there are no best buy, sheryl crow, or fung shui on your box unless you specifically decide to go look at them. For all anybody knows, there is a line with a star. Don't hit select on that line, there are no ads.

-smak-

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 02:22 AM
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BrettStah
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Registered: Nov 2000
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Posts: 3104

Tivo should have (and should in the future) give folks a message explaining what is going to happen, all the details of how it won't use any of your recording space, etc., and give folks a way to opt out. Make the content good enough (movie trailers, videos, video game demos, etc.) and most probably won't opt out.

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Mysteryman is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 02:27 AM
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Mysteryman
Mysterious!

Registered: Jun 2002
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Forgive me for being new and speaking out of turn, but I must agree with Dan.

Perhaps Tivo needs to update one of its old commercials. Remember the one with the guy watching football, and pausing right before the final play? He quickly rushes to church to pray and then returns home to see the triumphant win.

Should he now come back after prayer and see that he missed the final goal because a music video is recording that he didn't choose?

Sorry, this is a cheap shot I suppose, but I am putting myself in Dan's shoes and I would be really frustrated.

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Uther is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 02:40 AM
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Uther
King of Britons

Registered: Dec 2001
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I believe that was actually a Microsoft UltimateTV commercial...

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Mysteryman is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 02:51 AM
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Mysteryman
Mysterious!

Registered: Jun 2002
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I believe you are mistaken sir.


"A clever recent TiVo commercial shows an avid sports fan putting the football game on pause, getting into his car, and driving to church, saying an urgent prayer before returning home to take the TiVo off of “pause.” Of course, his prayers are answered, and his team scores after the PVR “play” button is depressed."

From:
http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2001/0201/02cic.htm
Feb/2001

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