TiVo Community Forum Archive 1
READ ONLY ARCHIVES

Welcome to the TiVo Community Forum Archive
This archive covers threads on TiVo Community Forum that have not been posted to from the start until June 30, 2004.  Any thread that has a post made to it between 7/1/04 and 12/31/05, that had not been posted to, will be found in Archive 2.
This is a READ ONLY site.

  Search | ARCHIVE 2 | MAIN SITE

TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
>>> Absolutely outraged <<<

Pages (12): « First ... « Prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 Next » ... Last »  
Forum Jump:
Search this Thread:
Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread ---> Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
nrc is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 07:20 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for nrc Visit nrc's homepage! Find more posts by nrc Add nrc to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
nrc
Cracker Soul

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Living in a four letter world.
Posts: 697

quote:
Originally posted by TiVo_Al
Why is TiVoPony mysteriously absent from this thread?


My guess would be that he probably feels that he has said all that can really be said on the subject in the TiVo Promotion Issue Posts thread at the top of the page. The super-condensed version would be something like, "We hear your concerns, things will take a while to change and right now we have to do business."

Outrage aside, this is nothing new. Teleworld recordings and the associated data feeds have behaved obnoxiously for a while now. Scheduled reboots have the same problem. It has become a 'big deal' because of sensitivity to advertising and the World Cup. That's good. TiVo needs to address the problem. But it's not going to happen tomorrow, it may not be exactly what you want and they're not going to tell you about it until they're ready.

In the mean time there are things you can do to prevent disaster when you're watching something important. That's not a solution, it's a work-around. If you choose not to use a work-around because 'you shouldn't have to,' that's your choice.

POST #101 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

walters is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 07:23 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for walters Find more posts by walters Add walters to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
walters
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 2408

quote:
Originally posted by nrc
Outrage aside, this is nothing new. Teleworld recordings and the associated data feeds have behaved obnoxiously for a while now. Scheduled reboots have the same problem.


Well, they fixed the reboot one (for the most part), so they do listen.

POST #102 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Xaa is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 07:26 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Xaa Find more posts by Xaa Add Xaa to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

Right on NRC.

I think now knowing what he does, Dan is better prepared to go forward.

A BIG part of his gripe was that he was never informed of this possibility. The responsibility of communication does fall on Tivo's shoulders and they failed him in that respect.

I do hope they make the recordings more user friendly as well as the reboot for new software. We know they can do it, let's hope they do.

Xaa

POST #103 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

phone1 is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 07:54 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for phone1 Find more posts by phone1 Add phone1 to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
phone1
?????????

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 6869

quote:
Originally posted by TiVo_Al
Why is TiVoPony mysteriously absent from this thread?
Because he's tired of reading and saying the same thing over and over?

For those of you who wanted to hijack this thread and turn it into a TCA rant, he's posted all his replies in the In Regards To The TiVo Promotion Issue Posts... thread at the start of the coffee house.

As to the REAL topic, the reality is that guide data has to be sent to TiVo, using Teleworld and shortening the phone calls is a cost saver for the company. Choosing 4AM Monday morning seems to be the least obtrusive.

I've flushed the buffer enough myself through pressing the wrong button not to trust it. (I wouldn't be too alert at 4AM anyway). If it's important to me, I record it, that's what a Digital Video Recorder is for.

This is just complaining for the sake of complaining, there's no real "fix" here. In fact I haven't seen many constructive suggestions (wait for 3 HOURS of no remote activity before recording - cmon!). Mostly it's just TiVo shouldn't do this to ME, wahhh!!

Life lesson No. 3564: If your watching TiVo at 4AM Monday morning and you don't want to miss anything, press the record button.

__________________
HDVR2 35 Hrs. -> 212 Hrs. with TwinBreeze™
TiVo Series 2 60 Hrs. -> 223 Hrs.
SVR-2000 - stock
Best Universal Remote (for the money - $18): OFA URC-6131

POST #104 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Xaa is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 08:07 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Xaa Find more posts by Xaa Add Xaa to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

Phone,

What is wrong with 90 minutes of no activity before recording it? How about 1 hour?

What is wrong with putting it in the todo list for the user to see?

He is using 2.5 so it was not guide data for him.

This isn't complaining for the sake of complaining, it's complaining for the sake of making it a better experience.

It can be done and pretty easily.

There have been suggestions on how this can be made better and only the hijackers of the thread have ranted that it should never record. Give the user a break here.

quote:
Life lesson No. 3564: If your watching TiVo at 4AM Monday morning and you don't want to miss anything, press the record button.


Too bad Tivo didn't bother to share life lesson 3564 with it's customers. Just left them hanging out there to find out on their own. Thanks a pant load.

Xaa

POST #105 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Mysteryman is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 08:17 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Mysteryman Find more posts by Mysteryman Add Mysteryman to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Mysteryman
Mysterious!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 206

phone1,

I really think you are missing the legitimate complaint here. This is not an issue of TCA, of method of transmission of guide data, nor the ease at which the USER can accidentally wipe out the buffer.

The issue is being an informed consumer. Dan did everything right. He took the time to RTFM. He knew his season passes. He had intentionally turned off 'suggestions'. Yet the unit did not perform as advertised.

This is about being informed about changes to the product. The Tivo is a fantastic, but complex device. We all love it, but issues like this will hurt Tivo the company in the long run. Not because the small percentage of Tivo users here in this forum understand the nature of the issue, but that the VAST MAJORITY of Tivo users don't.

It is such an easy thing to tell Tivo users about this, I don't understand why it hasn't been done already. I receive the email newsletter from Tivo often. Why not a small paragraph at the bottom letting people know that sometimes the Tivo will record the discovery channel during the early hours of the morning? People won't be surprised when their buffer gets cleared or at least they will know that they shouldn't count on it at odd hours of the morning.

Please keep in mind the perspective we need to take on this is not as a regular to the Tivo forums, but as a general consumer whose only contact with Tivo is a users manual, a email newsletter, and continuing guide data.

POST #106 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

andyf is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 08:26 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for andyf Visit andyf's homepage! Find more posts by andyf Add andyf to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
andyf
Long time TiVo user

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 305

Maybe an additional sentence in the Service Update guide on TiVo.com would be appropriate. They already say that the download occurs in the early hours of the morning and that it won't intefere with SP or shows.

Seems like it was documented to me.

__________________
Andy

POST #107 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

phone1 is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 08:42 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for phone1 Find more posts by phone1 Add phone1 to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
phone1
?????????

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 6869

Hi Xaa - I think 60-90 minutes would prevent some suggestions from being recorded (lots of people don't use standby) and that IS one of the much advertised features of TiVo.

AFA putting Teleworld on the To Do list, I don't think TiVo CC is prepared for the barrage of callers wondering why something they didn't request (we're pretty small minority here.)

I suppose they could send every TiVo user a message like: "If you see your TiVo recording something you didn't request at 4AM Monday, don't worry! We're just using the recording to update your guide data and/or send some special promotional information. If you've already scheduled another recording for this time, you'll still get your guide data through your daily call."

But this may be information overload. I think that the vast majority of TiVo owners (obviously I'm not talking about forum members) don't know or care how or when they get guide data/promos. They would rather deal with the occasional incident than make the product/service seem too complicated. (Like all the backdoors, shortcuts, etc. that are not published in the user guide.)

It's not that they are trying to hide it - they're very upfront about it in this forum. I guess they think that for the average user it's a non-issue. Remember, there are 15,000 members here as opposed to how many subscribers (200,000+??). I think it's important to balance the feedback from us with the realities of offering what (they hope) is or will be a mass market service.

Edit: I just happened to see this in another thread, but it does address the KISS principle:

quote:
Originally posted by Timber
I visited the Underground, turned on Backdoors and generally played around with 3.0's hidden features.

I've been a Product Manager for a well-known (and frequently negatively commented on in here ) company. I wanted to say what GREAT choices Tivo have made about what to reveal and what to tuck away.

Making these kinda choices can be tough, what do you reveal, what do you hide, what are the defaults, putting yourself in your users shoes. Tivo does a great job of keeping the User Interface simple. Before I bought my Tivo I was concerned that my family would have a tough time understanding how it worked. Its a model of simplicity.

Well done Tivo!

-=Tim=-

__________________
HDVR2 35 Hrs. -> 212 Hrs. with TwinBreeze™
TiVo Series 2 60 Hrs. -> 223 Hrs.
SVR-2000 - stock
Best Universal Remote (for the money - $18): OFA URC-6131

Last edited by phone1 on 06-11-2002 at 08:48 PM

POST #108 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Xaa is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 08:47 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Xaa Find more posts by Xaa Add Xaa to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

I here ya about suggestions phone1. What I'm saying is leave suggestions at 30 min no problem because the user decides to either enable or disable them.

Make these programs suggestion priority (actually one notch above suggestions), but require 60 or 90 minutes of inactivity for these as the user has no way to turn them off.

I think it's doable and would eliminate 99% of the 1% who are effected by this in any way.

And of course better communication......

Xaa

POST #109 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Mysteryman is offline Old Post 06-11-2002 08:54 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Mysteryman Find more posts by Mysteryman Add Mysteryman to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Mysteryman
Mysterious!

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 206

quote:
originally posted by andyf Maybe an additional sentence in the Service Update guide on TiVo.com would be appropriate. They already say that the download occurs in the early hours of the morning and that it won't intefere with SP or shows.


From:http://www.tivo.com/flash.asp?page=support_index

"Shorter Daily Phone Calls: Though the TiVo Service still requires a daily phone call, the call should now be shorter for most DVRs. This is because the TiVo service can now record some information from service broadcasts aired once or twice a week, usually between 2 AM and 5 AM. Your DVR records these broadcasts automatically and will never cancel or delete your shows to get them. "


I stand corrected. I will be more diligent about reading service updates myself. Thank you andyf.

POST #110 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

tom_h is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 01:18 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for tom_h Find more posts by tom_h Add tom_h to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
tom_h
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

quote:
Originally posted by nrc

The super-condensed version would be something like, "We hear your concerns, things will take a while to change and right now we have to do business."



Actually not at all what he said.

The super condensed version of what he said was "We hear you, we havent talked about changes, we dont currently plan to talk about changes, and we're going to do more of it, sorry".

Which was followed up by several folks who say they were involved with the development process saying that more than sufficient thought already went into this and its the best compromise, end of story.

If the super condensed version was what you thought it was, I would have no issues.

Agree that communication would resolve a lot of this. I have a boatload of tivo enabled friends who dont visit the forum, your basic user types. The feedback/questions I get are "What the heck is that, why did I get it, how did I get it, can I make it go away/when will it go away, its kinda dumb, is it taking up my space, is it tying up my phone line, are we gonna get any more of these (without a pleased look on the face)", etc.

Given that there is a messages capability, a ptcm capability, and the ability to send full video goodies to tivo, the complete lack of comm on this seems inexplicable. How about a spokesperson on a short video with the fabulous star next to it explaining what tcp's are and how they work, what they do and dont do. "hey, its to introduce you to new blah, it doesnt take up any of your space or telephone time, its automatically recorded by your tivo at 4am on sundays if there are no other recordings planned. If you are by a slim chance watching live tv at 4am on sundays be aware that unless you're recording or actively watching that we may change the channel to record this. have a nice day".

Why the quietness? Why the secrecy around the feature?

POST #111 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Xaa is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 01:28 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for Xaa Find more posts by Xaa Add Xaa to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Xaa
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

Right on TomH.

A TCP to introduce TCP's and let the users know all the skinny. It would be easy to record and easy to deliver.

Xaa

POST #112 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

tom_h is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 01:32 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for tom_h Find more posts by tom_h Add tom_h to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
tom_h
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

One other item. I just read a news article that interviewed the BBC who said that given the negative press and user feedback from the d&j recording, that they were seriously considering cancelling their agreement with tivo.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/me...sp?story=302874

POST #113 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

austinsho is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 03:03 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for austinsho Find more posts by austinsho Add austinsho to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
austinsho
Member

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: austin TX usa
Posts: 88

Well, given everything said above this and the above link, it seems that TiVo is a company that really has a handle on technology but...with all due respect to the fine reps here...doesn't have a CLUE about how to communicate with the vast majority of its customers.

The LAST thing any TV network (even the BEEB) wants to do is alienate viewers. This little fiasco in the UK with TiVo not telling folks what was going in in ADVANCE did exactly that.

Ergo...one less partner, and source of income, for TiVo.

And since things like that (see above, that Crow singer popping up in the middle of the World Cup Game at 4:00 AM) drove me to UTV, this will probably be one of my last posts here. But let me say that I have rarely seen a more loyal group of supporters for any company. I don't there's a person here who doesn't want to see TiVo succeed. That, for any company, is a rare resource.

TiVo Pony and TiVo Bill...PLEASE do your best to convince someone that screwing with what people perceive they have purchased (yes, I know TiVo still owns the operating system and other software and is within its rights to do everything it's done) does NOT make for happy customers.

UTV may be going and Dishplayer is dead. But don't think for a MOMENT that TiVo is home free. Even if TiVo has a 90% share of the DVR market, it's still a small, small market. And TiVo's actions are not helping it grow. Indeed, people are being scared off by the publicity about being "force fed" programming. And it doesn't matter whether that charge is valid. When you combine it with boxes that have jumped to $400 in price...well, I'm just no longer an optimist about the TiVolution. As someone else said..."all revolutions devour their own children."


pax folks....

Mike Nassour
Austin Texas

__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed individuals can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has..." - Margaret Mead

....Margaret would have had a TiVo!!!

POST #114 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

TiVoPony is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 03:30 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for TiVoPony Find more posts by TiVoPony Add TiVoPony to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
TiVoPony
Good TiVo, Good.

Registered: May 2002
Location: Alviso, California
Posts: 1190

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h


Actually not at all what he said.

The super condensed version of what he said was "We hear you, we havent talked about changes, we dont currently plan to talk about changes, and we're going to do more of it, sorry".

Which was followed up by several folks who say they were involved with the development process saying that more than sufficient thought already went into this and its the best compromise, end of story.

If the super condensed version was what you thought it was, I would have no issues.



Tom, your interpretation of what I've posted is not accurate either in intent or fact.

First, we have listened. Both here and in the UK. The two implementations were quite different. Some have chosen to equate the two, and I could see that lacking the information where they might. But they would be incorrect.

We've apologized for the manner in which the UK trial was conducted, and committed to change those things that we can right away. We've also committed to investigate changing things that take longer to implement - such as observing a remote control activity-window, or lowering these recordings below that of a suggestion. To say that we haven't discussed change, or that we have no plans to discuss change, is totally, completely wrong.

In the US, yes, some people don't like the yellow star. I acknowledge that. Some people do like it. They've posted here as well. We have taken steps to minimize the impact to everyone's live TV viewing (by providing this content late at night). It wasn't our intention to interfere with a World Cup game.

I'm sorry that you feel this impacts your ability to navigate the menu when going to Pick Programs To Record. I cannot commit that we will investigate that as an issue. I doubt it's something that we will change.

Those that guessed that I hadn't chimed in because there's been nothing new said, you're right. Much of the debate has gone out of these threads, they tend to be more about the rights of some to support TiVo vs. the rights of others to criticize TiVo.

There's also nothing new to tell you. We're looking into things, particularly in the UK.

Regarding the "secrecy" you feel revolving around this feature, nothing could be further from the truth there either. The service updates published on our website have described this feature in detail, both during the previous 2.5.x release for Series1 systems (when this feature was first introduced), as well as for the current 3.0 release (where Series2 subscribers are seeing this for the first time). Our manuals have been updated to include this feature as well, including the version that is downloadable from tivo.com. Your suggestion to use the TCP mechanism to promote itself is an interesting one, although not one that we've considered. We have used this mechanism to promote TiVo itself in the past, and it has always been in tandem with providing interesting content at the same time, such as the Joe Montana interview from the Superbowl, or the Coppola interview during the Oscars. We have not used the TCP to explain a specific feature. Believe it or not, it does cost money to produce and broadcast that content. It's more involved than putting Pony in front of a camcorder...

Regarding your post on the BBC in the UK, I'll explain here, as I did in the UK forum, that there is no truth to this to my knowledge (and I have talked with Andrew Cresci, who runs our UK operation). Just an unsubstatiated rumor published without any sources quoted.

Bob

__________________
TiVo Product Marketing

POST #115 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

tom_h is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 04:05 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for tom_h Find more posts by tom_h Add tom_h to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
tom_h
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

Lets see...I can pull some quotes that led me to the conclusions I rendered but perhaps you can re-read what you've said and see if you can figure out how I came to these conclusions. In some places you said there'd be discussion and in others you specifically said there wouldnt be or you doubted there would be.

In this specific post you particularly outline the one area that irritates me and have said you doubt it'll change.

With regards to secrecy...hmm, we've known about reserved space for years. Although until the lexus thing I dont think anyone knew exactly what it was going to be used for. I think speculation on movie trailers and PPV's was about it. And we're not most buyers. Perhaps some buyers read every page of the manual, agreements, and financial statements. I'd suspect the vast, vast majority of users read little or none of the above except to figure out how to install and operate the features.

I've participated in every beta except for the most recent one. How and what the reserved space usage was going to be and how it would be implemented wasnt disclosed. Even though we were under NDA.

There is a very supportive group of 5-10k pretty hard core tivo users here. I dont recall seeing one post by someone from tivo to talk about this feature and its expected implementation, or to seek any input on that feature or implementation. And its free for you to do it and as far as I can see, you've gotten a bunch of feedback and ideas that you didnt get from whatever 'closed' testing you did.

Hence my curiousity and points as to why the feature and its use was so specifically not discussed anywhere. Trade secret? Shoot, replay hasnt been able to reproduce half your good features, why imagine they'd go repro this one. Accidentally let a lot of potential partners know you have it? (sigh). I dont care if you've got 3,000 people working partnerships, you arent covering all the bases and free help is...well...free.

And as far as this discussion "tend to be more about the rights of some to support TiVo vs. the rights of others to criticize TiVo." as I said to otto <buzzer> WRONG! Its been about the right to point out something that I and others think could be done better and/or differently and to express that opinion. No more, no less. I have seen no attack or criticism of tivo, just some questions, points and alternatives. And in the limited, lousy, poorly sized and completely statistically unviable polling, 40-45% of people have said they dont like the way its implemented or expressed some misgivings about getting spam and paying for the service. I lumped the "dont cares" into the positive half of the group that liked it, although arguably 'dont cares' should be left out. Thats a zookload of people who are annoyed Bob.

And while that article may not be accurate, I doubt the writer pulled it out of umm...the air... the BBC promotion was a disaster. And besides best buy who already inked a supplier agreement, I dont see repeats from lexus or any of the other former tcp partners. Dont let this thing backfire on you while concurrently ticking off almost half your customers in an effort to garner some revenue.

Let me provide some raw and unadulterated quotes from real smart friends who bought this:

"They're holding back space on my disk for this crap? Thats stupid!"
"What do you mean 'they own the software and the service'? I paid $600 for this thing, i'm going to be really unhappy if they keep sticking stuff on it I dont want and cant get rid of".

The bottom line is this is a technically great set of features and capabilities. But I'd hazard that 90% of the users dont have a clue about the reserved space, the capability, how it works, and tivo's intentions. They have no way or reason to expect anything but the worst without more information.

POST #116 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

TiVoPony is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 05:27 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for TiVoPony Find more posts by TiVoPony Add TiVoPony to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
TiVoPony
Good TiVo, Good.

Registered: May 2002
Location: Alviso, California
Posts: 1190

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
Lets see...I can pull some quotes that led me to the conclusions I rendered but perhaps you can re-read what you've said and see if you can figure out how I came to these conclusions.


Whoa. It's not my job to justify your statements, that's up to you. I told you I didn't agree with you, and that you had misrepresented what I've posted. If you're leaving the proof of your arguments up to me...well, ok, I looked at my posts, and you're still wrong.

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
I've participated in every beta except for the most recent one. How and what the reserved space usage was going to be and how it would be implemented wasnt disclosed. Even though we were under NDA.



Signing an NDA does not entitle you to whatever information that you are personally interested in. It doesn't work that way.

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
And as far as this discussion "tend to be more about the rights of some to support TiVo vs. the rights of others to criticize TiVo." as I said to otto <buzzer> WRONG! Its been about the right to point out something that I and others think could be done better and/or differently and to express that opinion. No more, no less.



Ok. I agree with you on one thing. There was one new idea in this thread that had not been discussed to death already. And that was your suggestion to move the star up higher in the menu because you, personally, find it a challenge to get to Pick Programs to Record. That is new, I'll grant you that. It's also, and pardon this as I'm sure it isn't what you want to hear, not at the top of our priority list. I haven't seen a poll yet, or discussion from anyone else other than you, regarding "Does the star confuse you when you're trying to get to Pick Programs to Record". I'd be interested in the results of that poll.

There are other things that keep us quite busy already.

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
And in the limited, lousy, poorly sized and completely statistically unviable polling, 40-45% of people have said they dont like the way its implemented or expressed some misgivings about getting spam and paying for the service. I lumped the "dont cares" into the positive half of the group that liked it, although arguably 'dont cares' should be left out. Thats a zookload of people who are annoyed Bob.



To which poll are you referring? It doesn't appear to be any of these, they all appear to be far below your stated numbers (based on your definition).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...&threadid=62902

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...&threadid=61594

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...ults&pollid=881

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...&threadid=61468

Granted, even these numbers are not insignificant. But they don't support your claims. And it's difficult at best to extrapolate them to represent all TiVo subscribers.

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
But I'd hazard that 90% of the users dont have a clue about the reserved space, the capability, how it works, and tivo's intentions. They have no way or reason to expect anything but the worst without more information.



Agreed, although you might be surprised how many really care about an issue so important to you. Our call support team took very few calls, and even fewer emails regarding the Sheryl Crow promotion. I mean virtually none. It just didn't bother most people the way it has personally annoyed you, and a few other people, here on the forum.

The problem is, if new customers come here for a visit and read some of the recent excessively negative and inaccurate posts, they may decide one of two things. Either TiVo isn't for them, or perhaps this forum isn't for them. Either way we all lose.

Bob
[edited out an extraneous word]

__________________
TiVo Product Marketing

Last edited by TiVoPony on 06-12-2002 at 09:31 AM

POST #117 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

BrettStah is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 05:35 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for BrettStah Find more posts by BrettStah Add BrettStah to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
BrettStah
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 3104

I have about 12 people who I know personally with Tivos... I spoken to all of them since the Sheryl Crow/Best Buy deal, and not one of them has even brought it up. Which is exactly what happened with the Lexus deal (except for one question about whether I had registered to win the car).

Maybe some folks aren't using the shortcuts enough! You really don't need to spend a lot of time on the main screen, folks...

Hey TivoPony, how about you guys sending out a message (no PTCM though! ) that explains how to use the Tivo + Number shortcuts?

__________________
Brett

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

POST #118 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Flogduh is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 05:44 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for Flogduh Find more posts by Flogduh Add Flogduh to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Flogduh
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Campbell, CA, USA
Posts: 402

Tom

Normally, I stay out of these discussions but something here has compelled my to respond. With respect to your opinions, I submit the following comments:

Originally posted by tom_h
In some places you said there'd be discussion and in others you specifically said there wouldnt be or you doubted there would be.

Looks like Bob's been very consistent AND honest. He just flat out wrote that the folks at TiVo have discussed many of the issues, some which could change and others that won't. To suggest otherwise seems like you're accusing him or TiVo of misrepresentation.

In this specific post you particularly outline the one area that irritates me and have said you doubt it'll change.

Well, there's others out there whom I'm sure share your opinion, but on TiVo's list of enhancements and priorities, there's just as many, if not more of us who feel this is a non-issue.


With regards to secrecy...hmm, we've known about reserved space for years. Although until the lexus thing I dont think anyone knew exactly what it was going to be used for. I think speculation on movie trailers and PPV's was about it. And we're not most buyers. Perhaps some buyers read every page of the manual, agreements, and financial statements. I'd suspect the vast, vast majority of users read little or none of the above except to figure out how to install and operate the features.

Just because people didn't take the time to read the published service release info and updated product guides doesn't mean TiVo's be secretive at all. If you expected TiVo to pre-release details before the actual release, you really don't understand the concepts of confidential information, trade secrets and such. No well run company in their right mind would pre-announce details about what new features they would offer in their products or services, especially if these features further differentiate their offering from that of their competition. They might make some vague reference to functionality, but details? Now way in hell.

I've participated in every beta except for the most recent one. How and what the reserved space usage was going to be and how it would be implemented wasnt disclosed. Even though we were under NDA.

Some things can never be trusted to outsiders, regardless of any signed confidentiality agreement.

There is a very supportive group of 5-10k pretty hard core tivo users here. I dont recall seeing one post by someone from tivo to talk about this feature and its expected implementation, or to seek any input on that feature or implementation. And its free for you to do it and as far as I can see, you've gotten a bunch of feedback and ideas that you didnt get from whatever 'closed' testing you did.

I'd suspect that since you weren't a participant in that "closed" testing you refer to, you'd have no idea what info they did receive. Remember, as strongly as you feel about these issues, there are just as many, if not more, who feel just as strongly that TiVo does care, does listen, and makes decisions based upon what they feel is appropriate for the vast majority of their customers AND Tivo itself.

And while that article may not be accurate, I doubt the writer pulled it out of umm...the air... the BBC promotion was a disaster.

Bob never said it was handled well (disaster in your words), he pointed out the writer had no substantiated sources to the rumor.

And besides best buy who already inked a supplier agreement, I dont see repeats from lexus or any of the other former tcp partners. Dont let this thing backfire on you while concurrently ticking off almost half your customers in an effort to garner some revenue.

Do you know what may be in the works? How do you know that there isn't something better yet to come? As for ticking off "almost half" of their customers as you say, you really can't believe that 40-50% of all TiVo customers are up in arms about this, can you? Maybe 40-50% of the posters in this thread, but that's hardly representative of the entire customer base.

Let me provide some raw and unadulterated quotes from real smart friends who bought this:

"They're holding back space on my disk for this crap? Thats stupid!"
"What do you mean 'they own the software and the service'? I paid $600 for this thing, i'm going to be really unhappy if they keep sticking stuff on it I dont want and cant get rid of".


With all due respect to your "real smart friends", these are hardly comments I would label as "well informed and rationally thought out" responses. Anyone with any understanding of the technology business sector understands you rarely, if ever, purchase software. You may purchase a "license" to use it, but you never own it. As for services, your friends have the option to select an alternative service if they're not happy with this one.

The bottom line is this is a technically great set of features and capabilities. But I'd hazard that 90% of the users dont have a clue about the reserved space, the capability, how it works, and tivo's intentions. They have no way or reason to expect anything but the worst without more information.

Again, if they take the time to read about it, they'll understand. Ignorance is no excuse.

This thread has regressed from the original post. A simple push of the record button would have eliminated the problem.

__________________
Hitachi 57G500 HDRPTV, Sony Sat T-60 since 3/12/01 (108 hrs), Philips DSR6000R since 6/15/01 (35 hrs), Hughes HDVR2 since 12/13/02 (69 hrs), Philips DSR704 since 2/14/04 (35 hrs), Samsung SIR T360 since 2/24/04, another Philips DSR704 since 4/30/04 (35 hrs)

Last edited by Flogduh on 06-12-2002 at 05:59 AM

POST #119 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

HTH is offline Old Post 06-12-2002 05:47 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for HTH Visit HTH's homepage! Find more posts by HTH Add HTH to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
HTH
No Avatar Selected

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3582

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
Ok. I agree with you on one thing. There was one new idea in this thread that had not been discussed to death already. And that was your suggestion to move the star up higher in the menu because you, personally, find it a challenge to get to Pick Programs to Record. That is new, I'll grant you that. It's also, and pardon this as I'm sure it isn't what you want to hear, not at the top of our priority list. I haven't seen a poll yet, or discussion from anyone else other than you, regarding "Does the star confuse you when you're trying to get to Pick Programs to Record". I'd be interested in the results of that poll.

The issue that it broke macros for reaching Standby was an issue when the first star item appeared. The adjustment to its position however is a new one.

My question--as a sideline to the discussion--is that is there some contractual problem that is preventing you from providing remotes advertised for use with Philips TiVos that include a Standby button on the remote? I am aware that the AT&T peanut remote will control a Philips TiVo and has a Standby button, but also that the TiVo Store explictly says it is for use only with AT&T TiVos. Is this some contract issue with Sony that says you won't offer that function to Philips recorders?

(I'd like a backdoor that makes the PIP button be treated as Standby, please. )

__________________
┌──┬──┐
─├┤┬├┤─ There is no spool.
└─────┘

If you are dissatisfied with your life, return unused portion for partial refund.

POST #120 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:20 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (12): « First ... « Prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 Next » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
>>> Absolutely outraged <<<

TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
Search The Internet
 
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this thread

Forum Jump:
 
Search this Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.8
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.
Page generated in 0.10226488 seconds (83.30% PHP - 16.70% MySQL) with 22 queries.


Spider History Index