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>>> Lack of HDTV support will KILL TiVo. Moxi, Dish Network <<<

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Mykeys is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 05:42 AM
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Mykeys
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Signal Mountain TN USA
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I have two Tivos one of which is connected to my extremely cool Pioneer Elite 52" HDTV. Can't use the HDTV functionality today because Comcast doesn't support it, and I'm not willing to give up the TIVO.

However, first PVR that supports HDTV...I'm in. HDTV roll out will not be linear, it will be exponential. Take a walk around Blockbuster and compare the DVD section versus the VHS section...pretty much non-existant a year ago.

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eric_mcgovern is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 06:26 AM
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eric_mcgovern
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My take on this is:

Camp 1:
You have HD-TV, you love it, and wish TiVo supported it. You feel since there is a good chunk of programming out there for HD, TiVo is really dropping the ball here. You also feel since you have HD, and there is enough programming to keep you happy, HD is catching on.

Camp 2:
You don't have HD-TV and are perfectly happy without it and / or can't justify the price of it. You see no reason for TiVo to support it, and would rather see TiVo implement some other features. You probably don't know anyone with HD, so you don't see what the big deal is.

The reality is, HD TV is very confusing the consumer and is very slow to catch on. It is catching on slower than just about anything else in the electeonics world. You can't compare it to DVD, since DVD has been one of the fastest. Unless you are a hi-fi buff, you just don't care to take the time to investigate all the different HD-TV connections, resolutions, recievers, etc.

I think another reality, is people don't really care if stuff is HD. Many people are perfectly happy watching friends or survivor on their 32" tv's in NTSC.

TiVo isn't missing the boat on this one, HD-TV is missing the boat. Until there is a HD PVR on the market that is readily available, this converstion is just speculation.

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kevinivey is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 07:15 AM
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kevinivey
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My TiVo will be for sale on Ebay come Feb.2003,because all my locals will be HD,and without HD it just ain't worth it!

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Mars Rocket is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 07:36 AM
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Mars Rocket
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quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
Most people in the top 30 cities can receive 100 hours a week of HDTV programming. What more do you want?


With only 50 channels available (a low estimate for most satellite TV viewers) I have 8400 hours of programming available to me each week. I'm not spending a lot of money on HDTV equipment when barely more than 1% of it is available in high definition.

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RavenFan is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 09:22 AM
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RavenFan
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I am one of those people with a nice high-def ready televisions who is too cheap to buy a set-top box to get OTA HDTV. I personally don't see the value of getting a set top box since, according to the AVS forum post mentioned earlier, only two shows that I regularly watch are available in high definition - Smallville and ER. I can't eve get Smallville in HDTV here in Baltimore. I'm sorry, but Jay Leno and the Young and the Restless are not enough to get me to make the jump.

As for TiVo, I don't see why it should spend its scarce resources on creating product for what is currently a tiny, almost insignificant market. TiVo's main message is that it transforms the television experience by allowing viewers to watch programming on their own schedules. TiVo wants people to forget about the difficulties of recording to VCRs and embrace the user-friendly, easy to use technology. Deep down, I think that TiVo wants to appeal to the technophobes more than the technophiles of the world. However, TiVo has to rely on early-adopting technophiles to embrace the product early in the product life cycle who are willing to try new products. TiVo will need mass-market acceptance to achieve the economies of scale necessary for the future success of the company.

As I see things, TiVo needs to focus all of its efforts on sales to the masses and maintaining control over costs. The most viable way to do this is to focus on the mass market that does not necessarily have HDTV.

Will I want a HDTV TiVo in the future? Of course I will, but I can wait until there is a lot more programming available to record. Lets wait for TiVo to actually turn a profit before we ask it to divert its attention to a niche market product.

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foo monkey is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 09:22 AM
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RavenFan is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 09:25 AM
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RavenFan
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vanguard is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 10:42 AM
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vanguard
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Tivo's PQ is lousy. They need HDTV support but I don't expect anything from them.

I've only come around to tivo in the last year. Since I've bought one they've pretty much accomplished nothing, nada. I *think* replaytv already supports hdtv. I know they have progressive outputs in addition to their commercial skip, show sharing, and web based recording features.

I thought tivo would add these things. I've seen nothing from them so far and I don't really have much hope that they are doing interesting things in their new releases.

I hate to be a troll, I'm just bummed that they aren't doing more.

Vanguard

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DJRobX is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 11:38 AM
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DJRobX
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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Valencia, Ca
Posts: 221

I think when cable gets HDTV, it's going to take off in a BIG way.

Satellite companies are going to have a serious issue trying to deliver HD locals, though, I don't know what they're going to do.

I'm not above leaving my DirecTiVos for Dish if they come up with good HD PVR solution, and can get me more locals (CBS is almost worth it on its own).

-- Rob

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stangm is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 12:49 PM
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stangm
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quote:
Originally posted by vanguard
I've only come around to tivo in the last year. Since I've bought one they've pretty much accomplished nothing, nada. I *think* replaytv already supports hdtv. I know they have progressive outputs in addition to their commercial skip, show sharing, and web based recording features.



They may have progessive output but they do not have HDTV recording on replaytv.

HDTV recording would be cool for the 1% of people who have HD capable TV's. HD is cool. But it ain't worth it to most people. I am not going to spend $2000+ on a TV for a better picture. It ain't worth it to me. I watch TV for the content, the story, the drama, not the stunning visuals. Unless the picture quality is so poor that I can't make out what is going on, which is certainly not the case with my current SA tivo and basic cable, who cares? What is this fetish with PQ?

Would I like an even better picture? Sure. Am I willing to pay thousands of dollars for just that feature? No freakin way.

I also question whether the government will ever force the broadcasters to stop using analog. There are millions of portable, tabletop, under-counter, hand-held type TV's out there. People are gonna be pissed when they stop working.

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 01:19 PM
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BlankMan
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Registered: Mar 2002
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Ya'll can't believe that TiVo doesn't have some HDTV gimzo up their sleeve, can ya? You think their going to let on to something like that? Nada. They're struggling now to educate the masses to the benefits of TiVo, now is not the time in introduce the HDTV version, that would sell even slower. Sure, all the diehards would rush out and buy one, or two, or maybe more, but the HDTV market is not there yet. The prices are too high, and not enough content yet. It will happen.

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btmoore is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 01:59 PM
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btmoore
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It amazes me on how many HDTV Luddites are out there. I currently have 3 HDTV, 1 Plasma, 1 Front Projector, and 1 directview CRT. I feed all of them from the same STB through a switching system and distribution amp. I only watch the DirecTiVo for programs where I miss the HD or ED version, regrettably this is about 50 - 60%. If you have a tiny TV I guess you are not missing much but if you have anything large than 34 inch 4:3 you getting a very bad picture. I have a t60 and it has a horrible picture when compared to a SD picture off of my hughes e86. I think the Tivo has a broken mpeg decoder, watch solid reds or whites sometime and see how they shimmer. No such problems on my HD STB. If it were not for the high quality user interface and time shifting capabilities the TiVo, it would of been gone a long time ago. IMO as soon as a decent HD PVR time shifting solution comes around I will dump the TiVo. Right now I am looking forward to the Dish 921. On the surface and based on the specs is looks good, as soon as the reviews come out, if it appears to be a decent box I will be dumping my tivo and d*.

Based on TiVO's and D* lack of vision on providing a HD offering, I think most of you who complain about those of us who want a HDTV Tivo will be happy soon. Most of us will be gone once Dish or a cable company offer a HD PVR.

Regards,

Brian

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T-Veaux is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 03:14 PM
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T-Veaux
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Simply put...

TiVo needs to produce some sort of HDTV capable PVR in order to retain many of its consumers who own an HDTV and want to their TiVo to make use of it.

Will is "KILL" TiVo if they don't? Not at all at this stage in the game. Regardless of how many channels produce HD shows, unless more folk buy into HDTVs, it will barely dent the TiVo customer base.

There is no "HDTV or Die!" scenario for TiVo.

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AndyK is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 05:07 PM
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AndyK
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Right now, everything PVR is about hitting that lower price point that will bring mass acceptance. What *everyone* wants is a HDTV compatible model that still costs $299, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. Tivo should and IMHO will come out with a HDTV *compatible* design eventually, just not today. Moxie's advertised HDTV *feature* is all about grabbing attention, it's likely that if Moxie's Media Center were available today, very few would take advantage of that feature within the usable lifespan of the unit.



As for HDTV acceptance, there's plenty of people that have HDTV compatible sets, there's very few that own the tuner necessary to actually view HDTV content. The vast majority of people that can say "I have a HDTV set" have never seen a HDTV broadcast beyond possibly, a in store demo! Undeniably, this situation will change, just not today, tomorrow, or IMHO, the next couple of years.

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Rob Helmerichs is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 05:25 PM
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And I still say that FAR FAR more important to TiVo's survival than HDTV is selling their service to cable/TiVo combo boxes. THAT'S what has to happen now. HDTiVo has to happen when HDTV becomes relatively common.

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RavenFan is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 06:45 PM
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RavenFan
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quote:
Originally posted by btmoore
Based on TiVO's and D* lack of vision on providing a HD offering, I think most of you who complain about those of us who want a HDTV Tivo will be happy soon. Most of us will be gone once Dish or a cable company offer a HD PVR.



I don't think that anybody wants TiVo's HDTV owners to be gone. Actually, voicing the desire for HD TiVo is a healthy thing. Right now, however, the "HDTV complainers" are just a very vocal minority in TiVo's target market. Your actions in adopting HDTV at this early stage in its development prove that picture quality is an extremely important characteristic in your television-viewing activities. Eventually, as more people begin using HDTV, the voice of the "HDTV complainers" will carry much more weight.

Right now, however, TiVo cannot afford to divert attention from its primary efforts that will address cost controls and acceptance by the masses.

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kimsan is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 08:41 PM
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kimsan
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quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
And I still say that FAR FAR more important to TiVo's survival than HDTV is selling their service to cable/TiVo combo boxes. THAT'S what has to happen now. HDTiVo has to happen when HDTV becomes relatively common.


You're touching on an important point here. I got DTV because cable was unavailable and OTA reception was dismal. DTiVo made the DTV experience better.

At least one of the local stations is broadcasting in HD and lots of HD programming in available in major cities, but it has no impact on me. Until DTV carries a majority of channels in HD, I have no need for an HDTV or HDTiVo. I'd imagine quite a few other DTV and cable customers feel the same. HD is really remarkable, but it's not here yet.

I'd love to see DTV go HD on the "distant network" package. When that happens, I'll consider splurging on the display and *then* start screaming for the HDDTiVo. But if I'm *really* lucky, the DTV/TiVo alliance will have a box ready by then.

Hopefully they'll do the same for cable/OTA as market penetration increases.

cheers,

kim

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phone1 is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 09:12 PM
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phone1
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quote:
Originally posted by stangm
I watch TV for the content, the story, the drama, not the stunning visuals. Unless the picture quality is so poor that I can't make out what is going on, which is certainly not the case with my current SA tivo and basic cable, who cares? What is this fetish with PQ?
I couldn't agree more - how does HDTV make a crappy show like CSI: Miami any better? For most programs, viewing in HDTV is like dressing up a pig.

In the case of motion pictures, if the visuals are that compelling and content enhancing, then we'll watch it in a real theater. For everything else our 36" screen works just fine.

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J4yDubs is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 09:41 PM
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J4yDubs
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Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by LarryZ
I have an HDTV and think that it's great, but if I had to choose between Tivo and HDTV, it wouldn't even be close.

After living with TIVO for two years, I can't imagine going back to watching live TV, just because it looks a little better. The advantages of HDTV don't even come close to outweighing the advantages of time-shifting.


Exact opposite here. I've gone back to watching live HDTV where available instead of using the TiVo. I hate it, but I enjoy HDTV enough that I watch live. The TiVo still records alot of stuff, but it's starting to be used as a backup for some shows.

I'll probably go with the first company to provide a HD PRV...

John

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Philosofy is offline Old Post 11-19-2002 09:42 PM
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Philosofy
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What has sold more: HDTV recievers and TRUE HDTV's or TiVo? The answer is TiVo. Most sets out there are HDTV monitors, which have no HD Tuner. People love the quality of DVD's on these sets, but don't recieve HDTV signals on them. Part of the reason is that the dust still hasn't settled: we (the consumers) are afraid that Hollywood will force some copy protection scheme down our throat which will make our current sets obsolete. There are more people watching TiVo's today than HDTV.

IIRC, TiVo did preview an HDTiVo at a CES show a couple of years back. I'm pretty sure they have something developed, but what if they come out with a model, then a new copy protection scheme comes out? TiVo is very cautious when it comes to the legal stuff, and recording an HD signal digitally puts you in the legal cross hairs.

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>>> Lack of HDTV support will KILL TiVo. Moxi, Dish Network <<<

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