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>>> DirecTV support of DVR's is so laughable, but it's just not funny. <<<

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 05-31-2004 10:44 AM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

quote:
Originally posted by donsullivan
At the risk of needing asbestos armor, I must say that I can't believe this rantfest is still going on.

Most people who are this unhappy with a provider of services, simply choose to take their business elsewhere. Advice you might want to consider, if only to lower your blood pressure. Many have said it before and I'll repeat. It's time for you to go to cable or Dish.

In case you haven't grasped it yet, and given how long this rant has gone on you haven't, DirecTV has clearly determined (whether they'll admit it or not) that the incidence of this particular problem is very small as a percentage of their entire installed customer base. I have 3 of the SAT-T60's and have never experience the conditions your describe. You've also acknowledged that it is fixed in the newer Series 2 hardware. Well guess what, they fixed it in a hardware revision and I'm kind of thinking that they probably have learned that they can't fix it via software on the Series 1 and have stopped looking at it. At this point it is what the software industry might call a 'Feature'.

Over my entirely too many years dealing with high technology I've encountered countless bugs in products that eventually get resolved in future updates of the product. Sometimes a bug fix gets implemented in an older release, but normally the response is 'we fixed that in the latest version'. If the problem is indeed hardware related, and there are a very small number of incident reports of this condition, and they have confirmed that it's fixed in the latest hardware revision; This puppy is dead and is not getting fixed.

It's time for you to accept that and move on with your life. If you don't want to leave D* and you don't want to upgrade your hardware, then YOU have now chosen to live with this 'Feature' that so frustrates you. You already know how to resolve it, but that isn't the answer you want to hear so this rant continues.

Why does everyone assume Flame on mode? I'm not one of the Fantastic Four. I think I've been pretty civil lately. Is debating flaming? People seem to think that my blood is boiling and I'm throwing things around and I might stroke out over this, far from the case. If you're following that other thread there are a lot of people that get noticeably worked up over this. I however, am taking a relaxed approach and reporting it every time it occurs just so it's documented. I'm going to be that little thorn in the big corporate side until they either fix it, or replace the units, or come out and say they're not going to fix it. I am not one to roll over and play dead, especially when that is what they are hoping will happen. Knuckling under and accepting things the way they are instead of standing up to whomever is part of the reason society is in as much trouble as it is today. And yes, I write my Congressmen and Representatives. Well, I actually email them too.

It's my dime, who are you to tell me I should accept this feature? I bought a product that was supposed to perform a function, due to this feature it does not perform that function all of the time. Until DirecTV comes out and admits this feature exists and publicly states whether or not it will be addressed I will keep after them to address it. Doesn't matter to me if it is their business decision on whether or not to do anything about it and thereby ignore their customers and the problem. I suspect you'd be singing a whole different tune if it was frequently occurring to you and your programs weren't being recorded and you constantly had to repopulate the Favorite Channels list (if you use it). Not everyone has deep pockets, I cannot justify replacing the hardware for a cost because of a deficiency in the design of that hardware, hardware that otherwise works remarkably well. A design deficiency puts the onus on the provider to correct it.

This thread serves a purpose, and hopefully that is to inform potential new DirecTV customers that may be using the web to research their decision to go with DirecTV, that DirecTV's Customer Service is no where near what J. D. Powers and Associates cracks it up to be, and is totally lacking when it comes to supporting DirecTV DVR's when compared to the support we used to get when they were supported directly by TiVo.

No one is forcing you to read this thread, if you have better things to do I suggest you do them.

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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fcabanski is offline Old Post 05-31-2004 04:12 PM
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fcabanski
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I agree

I'm upset. When I reach into a river and pluck out a fish, it is wet.

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ISWIZ is offline Old Post 05-31-2004 07:52 PM
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ISWIZ
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The Series 2 fish will continue to be wet as it can't be dried with a software upgrade.

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GuidoTKP is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 12:45 AM
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GuidoTKP
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You know Blankman Customer service is not R&D its not Engineering its not the software department or any of the other departments that are designated to find and fix problems in the hardware and or software and to blame the CSR who is TRYING to help you is pretty short sighted and not to intelligent either...Think about it you are calling these people names because they have not been told that there is a problem so to them there is no problem with the software or the hardware the problem is You! as far as they know you have done something wrong or when you upgraded your series 1's you screwed up or something like that...They have no idea if this is truly an issue or not, you should rethink some of your statements along those lines they are pretty insulting and they are what make people think they need a flame retardent suit when ever they post in one of your threads...on the brite side I found out that there is a group of TIVO ENGINEERS and DirecTV ENGINEERS (not CSR's) who realized this is a problem and have started to work on a fix for it,I was not told how long it would take but there is light at the end of the tunnel now,when I go back to work I will check and see if they have any updates for me on a poss fix

__________________
1 Samsung SIR-S4040R 140 hr
1 Samsung SIR-S4040R 35 hr
1 HNS HDVR2 35 hr

And happy with what I have.

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PJO1966 is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 01:03 AM
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Thanks for the update Guido.

BlankMan... As was pointed out before, the problem was fixed in a subsequent model. D*TV has offered to exchange defective Series 1 units for Series 2 units. There is a fee involved, but it has been noted here or in this threads clone that if you ask them, they will waive the fee. In other words, they will replace the defective unit free of charge. If you are unwilling to send your Series 1 back for a replacement, you have no cause for complaining. Please correct me if I am incorrect, but what I have gathered from your many posts is that you are more upset by the fact that DirecTV has not admitted to the problem than you are with losing functionality.

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donsullivan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 02:49 AM
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donsullivan
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Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 80

quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
Why does everyone assume Flame on mode? I'm not one of the Fantastic Four. I think I've been pretty civil lately. Is debating flaming? People seem to think that my blood is boiling and I'm throwing things around and I might stroke out over this, far from the case. If you're following that other thread there are a lot of people that get noticeably worked up over this. I however, am taking a relaxed approach and reporting it every time it occurs just so it's documented. I'm going to be that little thorn in the big corporate side until they either fix it, or replace the units, or come out and say they're not going to fix it. I am not one to roll over and play dead, especially when that is what they are hoping will happen. Knuckling under and accepting things the way they are instead of standing up to whomever is part of the reason society is in as much trouble as it is today. And yes, I write my Congressmen and Representatives. Well, I actually email them too.

It's my dime, who are you to tell me I should accept this feature? I bought a product that was supposed to perform a function, due to this feature it does not perform that function all of the time. Until DirecTV comes out and admits this feature exists and publicly states whether or not it will be addressed I will keep after them to address it. Doesn't matter to me if it is their business decision on whether or not to do anything about it and thereby ignore their customers and the problem. I suspect you'd be singing a whole different tune if it was frequently occurring to you and your programs weren't being recorded and you constantly had to repopulate the Favorite Channels list (if you use it). Not everyone has deep pockets, I cannot justify replacing the hardware for a cost because of a deficiency in the design of that hardware, hardware that otherwise works remarkably well. A design deficiency puts the onus on the provider to correct it.

This thread serves a purpose, and hopefully that is to inform potential new DirecTV customers that may be using the web to research their decision to go with DirecTV, that DirecTV's Customer Service is no where near what J. D. Powers and Associates cracks it up to be, and is totally lacking when it comes to supporting DirecTV DVR's when compared to the support we used to get when they were supported directly by TiVo.

No one is forcing you to read this thread, if you have better things to do I suggest you do them.



We assume flame mode because throughout all of what I've read, you have not acknowledged a single response that anyone has offered as acceptable to you. You have in your mind what you want DirecTV to say and have determined that nothing other than the response you've developed in your mind is an answer to your quest.

Many of us who frequent these forums do so to learn, offer assistance when we can and ensure that misinformation is not spread that skews the perspective or experience of a new or potential customer. That's why I continued to watch this thread and felt it necessary to jump in when it resurfaced again. To paint all of DirecTV support as incompetent and unacceptable because they didn't give you the answer you want is an inappropriate characterization of both the organization, and the people who work in that role. Are they all perfect, of course not, but when they say they're not getting significant reports of the problem you have I'm inclined to believe them because I have no factual basis to believe otherwise.

What you're failing to accept here is that your continued contacts to them on the same issue over and over will still be nothing more than 1 report of the condition when the dust clears. When DirecTV does an analysis of where they should be focusing their development resources, they'll analyze their records of the number of incidence reports for a particular item to determine how to prioritize it. One person making 20 calls is still 1 customer reporting the condition, not 20. Continuing to harrass the Support Staff on the phone does nothing but get them frustrated. It's not like they can fix the problem. They've recorded it and it's now out of their hands.

As has been said many times, the problem has been resolved via a hardware revision, there is a fix option available to you but you have chosen that it's not the answer you want therefore this continues.

Last edited by donsullivan on 06-01-2004 at 03:00 AM

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 10:20 PM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

quote:
Originally posted by GuidoTKP
You know Blankman Customer service is not R&D its not Engineering its not the software department or any of the other departments that are designated to find and fix problems in the hardware and or software and to blame the CSR who is TRYING to help you is pretty short sighted and not to intelligent either...Think about it you are calling these people names because they have not been told that there is a problem so to them there is no problem with the software or the hardware the problem is You! as far as they know you have done something wrong or when you upgraded your series 1's you screwed up or something like that...They have no idea if this is truly an issue or not, you should rethink some of your statements along those lines they are pretty insulting and they are what make people think they need a flame retardent suit when ever they post in one of your threads...on the brite side I found out that there is a group of TIVO ENGINEERS and DirecTV ENGINEERS (not CSR's) who realized this is a problem and have started to work on a fix for it,I was not told how long it would take but there is light at the end of the tunnel now,when I go back to work I will check and see if they have any updates for me on a poss fix
You just hit the nail on the head. Nine times out of ten when dealing with a CSR the CSR assumes the problem is caused by the customer. Never mind I have repeatedly made reference to people inside TiVo that have confirmed this is a problem. Never mind I have supplied the names of those people to DirecTV many many times suggesting that they contact them.

I think I've mentioned numerous times that I do not fault the CSR's, in fact I think I've said numerous times that I believe the CSR's truly want to help, but for whatever reason aren't able to. Every time I've explained the problem to one they are sincere, They promise to look into and get back to me. You want to know how many times I was told that? You want to know how many times I actually did then get a call back? 0. Zero. Nada. None. The latest, Sylvia, I believe on May 4th said she'd call back, didn't. Why is that? Forgot? Told not to? On vacation? What?

Getting a different CSR every time I call or every time DirecTV calls does not help the matter. Think about it. You're reporting a reoccurring problem for over a year, so are other people, yet every time you report it or others report it you're/they're told I've never heard of that problem. Granted with all the CSR's chances of getting one that has is probably small, BUT, that is what a problem tracking database is for, yet DirecTV does seem to be doing that.

When the CSR's are the front lines that the corporation puts forth for the customer to contact them by, and is the only avenue to get the corporations attention, what do you expect is going to happen? I do not blame the CSR's for the problem, show me were I have? What I think I have said many times is that I suspect DirecTV management does not want to admit this problem exists and ergo that is why the information is not disseminated to all. Even your reference to it here and that it is being addressed is in an unofficial capacity, when will DirecTV do it officially so that customers are told that it is a known problem when they contact a CSR to report it?

Now, you finally found information on the problem and that people are working on it, thank you for that. BUT look how long it took you, and based on that fact it appears it wasn't the easiest thing to do.

Now, why did you have to dig for this information? Why wasn't it readily available to all CSR's so that when a customer calls and describes this problem the CSR can relate this information to the customer. Why don't I get that response to my reporting it instead of the canned Thank you for your patience while we research this problem? For over a year? I fault DirecTV for that. I keep saying it does not appear that DirecTV disseminates this information, this fact consistently gets glossed over.

And the reason I am stressing this is because before DirecTV took over support of DTiVo's, when TiVo was doing it, being informed was the type of service we customers were used to. I knew this was going to happen when DirecTV assumed responsibility for support of DTiVo's. But I don't blame the CSR's, I do fault the management, the CSR's can only work within the limitations the management prescribes and only with the information the management supplies to them.

Now, step back for a minute, try and take an objective view and for a minute put aside who your employer is. Over the course of a year, with a reoccurring problem, isn't that a good amount of time to realize there is a problem, and to get that fact out to the people that should know about it? The people that deal with customers reporting the problem? In this case the CSR's?

Heck, I don't blame you personally, I'd even be inclined to buy you a beer if I ever had the occasion to bump into you. And that coming from someone from this city says a lot.

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 10:26 PM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
Thanks for the update Guido.

BlankMan... As was pointed out before, the problem was fixed in a subsequent model. D*TV has offered to exchange defective Series 1 units for Series 2 units. There is a fee involved, but it has been noted here or in this threads clone that if you ask them, they will waive the fee. In other words, they will replace the defective unit free of charge. If you are unwilling to send your Series 1 back for a replacement, you have no cause for complaining. Please correct me if I am incorrect, but what I have gathered from your many posts is that you are more upset by the fact that DirecTV has not admitted to the problem than you are with losing functionality.

No I was never offered that. They wanted me to shell out $99 x 3 plus shipping. That would cost me at least $397. IMO I should not have to shell out any money to correct a design deficiency.

I would not be against entertaining the idea but it would depend on the model offered. I have a HDVR2 and scrolling through the menus or Now Playing list is painfully slow as compared to the T60's. That would not be a viable solution.

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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PJO1966 is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 10:28 PM
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PJO1966
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... again the point is that very few manufacturers will want to waste manpower trying to figure out a problem on a piece of hardware that had been replaced by a newer model. It is more cost-effective for them to replace the old model with the new.

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 10:51 PM
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BlankMan
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Location: WI
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quote:
Originally posted by donsullivan
We assume flame mode because throughout all of what I've read, you have not acknowledged a single response that anyone has offered as acceptable to you. You have in your mind what you want DirecTV to say and have determined that nothing other than the response you've developed in your mind is an answer to your quest.

Many of us who frequent these forums do so to learn, offer assistance when we can and ensure that misinformation is not spread that skews the perspective or experience of a new or potential customer. That's why I continued to watch this thread and felt it necessary to jump in when it resurfaced again. To paint all of DirecTV support as incompetent and unacceptable because they didn't give you the answer you want is an inappropriate characterization of both the organization, and the people who work in that role. Are they all perfect, of course not, but when they say they're not getting significant reports of the problem you have I'm inclined to believe them because I have no factual basis to believe otherwise.

What you're failing to accept here is that your continued contacts to them on the same issue over and over will still be nothing more than 1 report of the condition when the dust clears. When DirecTV does an analysis of where they should be focusing their development resources, they'll analyze their records of the number of incidence reports for a particular item to determine how to prioritize it. One person making 20 calls is still 1 customer reporting the condition, not 20. Continuing to harrass the Support Staff on the phone does nothing but get them frustrated. It's not like they can fix the problem. They've recorded it and it's now out of their hands.

As has been said many times, the problem has been resolved via a hardware revision, there is a fix option available to you but you have chosen that it's not the answer you want therefore this continues.

Don, you are expecting me to shell out $$ to fix the problem. How many times do I have to say IMO a customer should not have to pay more to correct a design deficiency? You must have deep pockets to accept that solution, I do not, sorry.

What misinformation might you be referring to? The fact that DirecTV does not acknowledge this is a problem? The fact that DirecTV CSR's say they will call back and don't? The fact that TiVo does acknowledge this is a problem? The fact that the majority of the time anyone, not just me, calls DirecTV to report this problem they are told I've never heard of that problem? The fact that this problem has been going one for over a year and we're no closer to a solution?

Just what misinformation are you trying to protect against?

Here's a good piece of information people may be interested in. DirecTV's suggestion to eliminate this problem is to replace the units. And they will graciously ship you a replacement unit for a mere $99 (plus shipping and tax of course). And if the replacements are HDVR2's, that is not a good solution, as I've said before, response to key presses on the remote are markedly slower when compared to a T60, and I am not the only one that has mentioned that.

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 11:00 PM
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BlankMan
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Location: WI
Posts: 1438

I just thought of something. If DirecTV is not going to fix any problems on Series 1 DTiVo's then they should declare them End of Life and inform the customers using them of this fact. Then the customer would know that any anomalies that are inherent to these units would have to be lived with, or they would have to replace them.

But then along with that, compensation would of course have to come along with that, possibly in the form of no monthly extra receiver fee for those units. Since the units would no longer officially be supported customers should not be expected to pay not to be supported, that would partially offset the cost for the customer to replace the unit(s) (after time).

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 11:07 PM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
... again the point is that very few manufacturers will want to waste manpower trying to figure out a problem on a piece of hardware that had been replaced by a newer model. It is more cost-effective for them to replace the old model with the new.
Understandably. But then they need to come out and say that, that they're not going to fix it. But instead they say nothing. We don't currently know the status, so should we blindly go out and replace these units that otherwise work remarkably well? At our own personal expense? Lemming I'm not. As I've said, I'm satisfied with DirecTV as a product, if only the DirecTV DVR could be relied upon to reliably record the programs it is suppose to, I'd be extremely satisfied with DirecTV.

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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donsullivan is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 11:35 PM
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donsullivan
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Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 80

quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
Don, you are expecting me to shell out $$ to fix the problem. How many times do I have to say IMO a customer should not have to pay more to correct a design deficiency? You must have deep pockets to accept that solution, I do not, sorry.

What misinformation might you be referring to? The fact that DirecTV does not acknowledge this is a problem? The fact that DirecTV CSR's say they will call back and don't? The fact that TiVo does acknowledge this is a problem? The fact that the majority of the time anyone, not just me, calls DirecTV to report this problem they are told I've never heard of that problem? The fact that this problem has been going one for over a year and we're no closer to a solution?

Just what misinformation are you trying to protect against?

Here's a good piece of information people may be interested in. DirecTV's suggestion to eliminate this problem is to replace the units. And they will graciously ship you a replacement unit for a mere $99 (plus shipping and tax of course). And if the replacements are HDVR2's, that is not a good solution, as I've said before, response to key presses on the remote are markedly slower when compared to a T60, and I am not the only one that has mentioned that.



1) It's not a design deficiency; it's a bug. I have three of the exact same boxes and know a number of others with multiples of them as well and none of us has experienced the condition(s) you describe. While admittedly only anecdotal, I suspect our collective experience with the T60 is consistent with most owners of that hardware platform. What I'm hearing is that you happen to use a feature which introduces a bug that I've certainly never seen nor have I heard of outside of this discussion. If you were a reasonable individual, you'd just define the workaround to prevent it from occurring and move on.

2) The misinformation is the generalized statement (including the message subject) that DirecTV doesn't support the hardware that is used on their network. Just because they have decided not to spend the money to go back and fix a hardware bug on a platform built by a manufacturer that no longer makes any such product, that has been resolved in a subsequent hardware revision does not mean they do not support the product. As for the CSR's not calling you back; I'm guessing that if you react to them the way you do on this board, they offer to call you back just to get you off the phone and then don't want anything else to do with you. But that's just my guess.

3) I'll repeat yet again what I've said at least twice in this thread. They are not going to fix this condition in the SAT-T60. It is not significantly compromising the function of the box for a large portion of their customer base. The moment Sony stopped building this box, any hardware related problems that remained became a dead issue which is no different than any other piece of consumer electronics gear that is released into the marketplace.

4) They and you have confirmed that it is resolved in a subsequent hardware revision and they have made that option available to you at a reasonable cost. It's a simple concept of the warranty running out and this is the way things work. If the box was still under warranty they would have replaced it for free much like Sony did for me when one of mine lost a hard drive about 4 months after I got it. But that same box popped a hard drive again about 2 years later and I had to pay to replace it at that time. It's not unreasonably at all; and in fact this is the way it works.

5) As for the issue about remote responsiveness, I couldn't agree more. I love the remote that came with the SAT-T60. It is substantially more comfortable, ergonomic and responsive than the dreaded peanut. But guess what, it isn't available anymore so I have to get used to the peanut on my Samsung Series 2 box and my HD-TiVo. It's just the way it is, and absolutely no amount of complaining about it is going to change it.

The bottom line is that you are demanding they fix an obscure bug in a piece of hardware that has been discontinued for I believe at least 2 years (I'm not absolutely sure of the timeline on this) built by a company that no longer makes a competitive product. A bug that it is confirmed has been resolved in a subsequent hardware revision. This bug can be avoided and when that is done, does not substantially compromise the functionality of the box.

It's time for you to either change they way you use the box so this bug no longer gets in your way, or replace the hardware. These are your only 2 available options and it's time to accept it, choose one and end this silliness.

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malloryd is offline Old Post 06-01-2004 11:38 PM
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malloryd
Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Sterling, Virginia
Posts: 31

I have suspected for some time now the Series 1's (T60 in particular) are not going to have any more software fixes done to them due to the Series 2 being out. I came to this conclusion with the complete lack of support on the supposedly "cosmetic" error message for guide data and the fact that Series 2's are being updated, but a "bug" prevents the Series 1's from receiving the update at this time. Every call I made to DirectTivo support was the same - we've never heard of it - reset your box - unplug your box for 30 minutes - blah, blah blah, and yet all the supervisors knew of the problem.

I also agree with BlankMan that it is NOT an issue - IF DircTV tell us that they'e no longer going to support the Series 1 boxes.

Also, like BlankMan, I've never been offered a replacement for my T60 - not even at $99.00 plus shipping. I know I could go ahead and order one at this price to replace my T60, but on top of shelling out more money (at the time I got my T60 they were not heavily subsidized), but they would expect me to agree to a one year commitment; for an additional box I would have no problem with the commitment - for a replacement I would.

Just my 2 cents...

DCM

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-02-2004 01:47 AM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

quote:
Originally posted by donsullivan
1) It's not a design deficiency; it's a bug. I have three of the exact same boxes and know a number of others with multiples of them as well and none of us has experienced the condition(s) you describe. While admittedly only anecdotal, I suspect our collective experience with the T60 is consistent with most owners of that hardware platform. What I'm hearing is that you happen to use a feature which introduces a bug that I've certainly never seen nor have I heard of outside of this discussion. If you were a reasonable individual, you'd just define the workaround to prevent it from occurring and move on.
It's not a design deficiency, eh? Then what would you call it? I have had the mechanics of the problem explained to me in depth. It surrounds a particular chip that was used in the design, if that chip were not used it is possible that the problem would not exist. Now, since the design used that chip, and the problem revolves around that chip, I would call that a design deficiency. Your conjecture and the fact that it is not happening to you or your acquaintances dose not mitigate the fact that this is a real problem caused by a designed in chip.

And tell me, what feature do I use that causes this problem? The Favorite Channels list? Is that the feature you are referring to? And what workaround are you referring to that I am ignoring that will fix this problem? Not using the Favorite Channels list? Is that it? So, because I choose to use the Favorite Channels list I am not a reasonable individual? Hmmm.... Regardless of the fact that the problem occurs whether or not the Favorite Channels list is used, I am a unreasonable individual for using it? Of all the workarounds suggested by DirecTV and others over the past year, not one has been found to be reliable to eliminate this problem, don't you think that if there was one, DirecTV and others would be fast to point that out to shut me up? I suggest you get your facts straight before calling someone unreasonable.

quote:
2) The misinformation is the generalized statement (including the message subject) that DirecTV doesn't support the hardware that is used on their network. Just because they have decided not to spend the money to go back and fix a hardware bug on a platform built by a manufacturer that no longer makes any such product, that has been resolved in a subsequent hardware revision does not mean they do not support the product. As for the CSR's not calling you back; I'm guessing that if you react to them the way you do on this board, they offer to call you back just to get you off the phone and then don't want anything else to do with you. But that's just my guess.
Interesting. They have decided not spend money and fix this problem? Where did you hear that? I missed that announcement. Can you direct me to were that is stated please? And what manufacturer are you referring to? Sony? Granted Sony may not have any current offerings, but Phillips and Hughes do. They're still manufacturing them to the best of my knowledge. And since Series 1 DTiVo's were identically alike internally regardless of whether is said Sony, Phillips of Hughes on the outside I find your analogy moot.

There you go assuming. If it were possible, I'd let you speak to any CSR I've ever talked to regarding this or any issue I called DirecTV about. I'd be very surprised if any one of them had anything to say other then I was very cordial when dealing with them. Even when I have to completely re-explain this particular problem every time I am in contact with them. What would be the point in becoming irate to a CSR on the phone? They are not in control? They cannot fix the problem. Although some seem to think they can and it sometimes is hard to have them understand that you cannot fix a software bug or hardware problem over the phone. In fact I just called them this past Saturday due to an overcharge in the bill I received that day, Called them, got it corrected, no problem. All without my blood pressure rising a single point.

I suggest that you refrain from judging people you do not know.

quote:
3) I'll repeat yet again what I've said at least twice in this thread. They are not going to fix this condition in the SAT-T60. It is not significantly compromising the function of the box for a large portion of their customer base. The moment Sony stopped building this box, any hardware related problems that remained became a dead issue which is no different than any other piece of consumer electronics gear that is released into the marketplace.
Oh and you're speaking for DirecTV? You're the authority on this problem? What are your credentials to assume this role? You seem to be focused on the fact that Sony no longer produces any current units, but you keep glossing over the fact that Phillips and Hughes do. So, once again, this is a poor analogy.

And you keep saying they are not going to fix anything on Series 1 DTiVo's, tell us were you officially get that information from, or I suggest you stop repeating facts not in evidence. Answer this in one of your bullet point responses please.

quote:
4) They and you have confirmed that it is resolved in a subsequent hardware revision and they have made that option available to you at a reasonable cost. It's a simple concept of the warranty running out and this is the way things work. If the box was still under warranty they would have replaced it for free much like Sony did for me when one of mine lost a hard drive about 4 months after I got it. But that same box popped a hard drive again about 2 years later and I had to pay to replace it at that time. It's not unreasonably at all; and in fact this is the way it works.
You seem to think it is acceptable to have to spend a minimum of $397 (I have never received any lower offer) to correct their problem. What part of the phrase I do not have deep pockets just don't you understand? And your saying that a T60 that DirecTV sold to me around a year ago during one of their promotions, I should now have to replace? A unit that is a year old. Once again, you must have deep pockets to be able to afford that life style. Let me say one more time, I do not. There. I hope you can finally understand that now.

quote:
5) As for the issue about remote responsiveness, I couldn't agree more. I love the remote that came with the SAT-T60. It is substantially more comfortable, ergonomic and responsive than the dreaded peanut. But guess what, it isn't available anymore so I have to get used to the peanut on my Samsung Series 2 box and my HD-TiVo. It's just the way it is, and absolutely no amount of complaining about it is going to change it.
You missed this point completely. It is not the remote. I don't use the supplied remote. I have a universal remote. It is not the remote that is the issue, it is the time it takes for the unit to respond to the command. If scrolling down through the now playing list you have to press down, wait, press down, wait, press down, wait, etc. If you don't do the wait(s) every other press is usually ignored. This happens with the supplied remote and numerous other universal remotes. Even with new batteries. Even on stock, non-modified HDVR2's. This happens in any menu or function. It is not just me, it has been mentioned in many threads by many people.

quote:
The bottom line is that you are demanding they fix an obscure bug in a piece of hardware that has been discontinued for I believe at least 2 years (I'm not absolutely sure of the timeline on this) built by a company that no longer makes a competitive product. A bug that it is confirmed has been resolved in a subsequent hardware revision. This bug can be avoided and when that is done, does not substantially compromise the functionality of the box.

It's time for you to either change they way you use the box so this bug no longer gets in your way, or replace the hardware. These are your only 2 available options and it's time to accept it, choose one and end this silliness.



No, the bottom line is: I ask that they correct an issue that can cause the DirecTV DVR not to record programs, which in case you are unaware, is the main purpose of a DirecTV DVR.

Even if as you say the hardware is discontinued for two years, which Series 1 DTiVo's are discontinued, DirecTV was still selling them to customers long after that. And only one of the three manufactures has dropped out of manufacturing competitive products.

Where has this "bug" been officially confirmed? I keep asking that and no one tells me. Could it be there is no official place? An official announcement by DirecTV stating they're not going to fix this or any other problem would knock me right off my soapbox, now wouldn't it?

And again I ask, how can this bug be avoided permanently such that it does not affect the functionality and cause programs not to be recorded. ? (Short of replacing the units.)

Once again tell me how I can change they way you use the box so that this no longer occurs.

And once again, what makes you the authority to be able to tell me These are your only 2 available options? No one else that is a genuine authority on the subject is saying that, where do you get your information?

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

Last edited by BlankMan on 06-02-2004 at 01:54 AM

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Sir_whinealot is offline Old Post 06-02-2004 01:57 AM
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Sir_whinealot
Seenyer Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: FloRiDa
Posts: 277

quote:
Originally posted by PJO1966
Thanks for the update Guido.

BlankMan... As was pointed out before, the problem was fixed in a subsequent model. D*TV has offered to exchange defective Series 1 units for Series 2 units. There is a fee involved, but it has been noted here or in this threads clone that if you ask them, they will waive the fee. In other words, they will replace the defective unit free of charge. If you are unwilling to send your Series 1 back for a replacement, you have no cause for complaining. Please correct me if I am incorrect, but what I have gathered from your many posts is that you are more upset by the fact that DirecTV has not admitted to the problem than you are with losing functionality.



I am very curious as to where, exactly, you came upon this information...and if indeed, it is fact.

I have never been offered a replacement...I'm still frustrated over the fact that after numerous calls, they have yet to admit to this as being a recognized problem...yet what I'm reading here, is that they are aware of said problem, and are willing to send a replacement free of charge?

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-02-2004 02:05 AM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

malloryd, Sir_whinealot, thank you, finally someone(s) that agree with me, even if only partially and don't think I'm a Flaming ahole. (Even if you do, please keep it to yourself, don't burst my already really tiny bubble. )

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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Sir_whinealot is offline Old Post 06-02-2004 02:13 AM
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Sir_whinealot
Seenyer Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: FloRiDa
Posts: 277

quote:
Originally posted by donsullivan
1) It's not a design deficiency; it's a bug. I have three of the exact same boxes and know a number of others with multiples of them as well and none of us has experienced the condition(s) you describe. While admittedly only anecdotal, I suspect our collective experience with the T60 is consistent with most owners of that hardware platform. What I'm hearing is that you happen to use a feature which introduces a bug that I've certainly never seen nor have I heard of outside of this discussion. If you were a reasonable individual, you'd just define the workaround to prevent it from occurring and move on.



And what "workaround" might that be???

I do not utilize the Favorite Channel "feature," yet almost every 3 weeks or so, both my Phillips and/or Sony t-60 are not able to record items from the To Do list because of this "bug" that must be my fault.

I mean, if you have 3 boxes and have never experienced this, your collective experience dictates that this problem is not widespread?

Oh puleeeze!

Have you actually taken the time to read the other thread?

quote:
This bug can be avoided and when that is done, does not substantially compromise the functionality of the box.



Again...I am very curious as to exactly "how" this bug can be "avoided?"

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Sir_whinealot is offline Old Post 06-02-2004 02:24 AM
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Sir_whinealot
Seenyer Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: FloRiDa
Posts: 277

quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
malloryd, Sir_whinealot, thank you, finally someone(s) that agree with me, even if only partially and don't think I'm a Flaming ahole. (Even if you do, please keep it to yourself, don't burst my already really tiny bubble. )


Hey BM...this problem is still as frustrating as ever! That there are those who would blame this problem on something *I'm* doing is just ridiculous!

I for one, appreciate your sticking w/this...on 'our' behalf...as there are many of us that have become SO frustrated, we've (kind of) given up.

If DTV would give us a solution...even this phantom free Series 2 trade-in...I would go for it. But not hearing anything after all this time while the problem continues is mind boggling!

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 06-02-2004 02:32 AM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

Oh Don.... Don.... It's all my fault?

__________________
User: So, how long will the server be down?
SA: Until it's back up (cjb 1994)
SAT-T60 290h TurboNET
SAT-T60 230h TurboNET (x2)
HDVR2 107h
DVR40 (unactivated) (x3)
HR10-250 stock
and ah, a, A55

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