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>>> HMO is now set to be free, second Tivos in a house $6.95/month... <<<

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sublime is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 01:30 AM
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sublime
Cynic.

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Mogo, TX
Posts: 97

Early adopters got to use the service for much longer than anyone else. That's a plus for them. If you didn't have time in 30 days to evaluate features properly, how is that TiVo's fault? A full month should be sufficient to determine if the features you paid for were right for you. Did you contact customer service after you figured it out to see if a deal could be made for a refund, either full or partial? Should TiVo have called or emailed each subscriber to see if they were happy with the service or if they needed more time to decide?

People that bought HMO as early adopters did so because the features were worth it for them. Otherwise, they would not have ordered it in the first place. In those cases they did order it when they weren't sure, they had a full 30 days to decide that they didn't like it and get their money back.

People got exactly what they paid for. Things will also be cheaper, better, smaller, faster, more in the future. It's the nature of advancement. People make decisions about where to put their money and when. We're not all stuck in a permanent holding pattern of waiting for the next best thing just because it will be better and cheaper, otherwise nobody would ever buy anything.

You wanted more personal customer service from a company that has over a million and a half customers or so. That's fine. I'm not sure it's a realistic expectation, but it's one you had. They sent an email to every person signed up on their mailing lists and you feel slighted because they touted it as a new feature and didn't take the time to mail a separate email to the previous HMO subscribers. Fair enough, and sure, it would have been nice. Did they owe it to the early adopters? I don't think so. Will they do something for us in the future? Maybe. It's all just speculation at this point.

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TiVoOpsMgr is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 02:20 AM
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TiVoOpsMgr
Director, Svc. Ops

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Alviso, CA, USA
Posts: 944

quote:
Originally posted by TivoFan
It could very well have been that Tivo, when it found out about the DirectTV news, wanted to offset the bad publicity and speculation. So they rushed to put together something that they could boast about and that would distract from the rumor that DirectTV might be going with the a competing DVR.
My goodness! Anyone who has worked with coordinating press releases (five press releases and a New York press event on Wednesday), changing billing systems (changes required to include the Home Media Option and allow for multiple subscription discounts), or creating agreements with new companies (Best Buy and Nikon) would be able to tell you that we have been working on these announcements for many months. And I have to tell you on a personal level, it took a lot of hard work from many people within TiVo's marketing, sales, business development, IT, service operations, engineering, accounting, finance and customer support groups to get here.

__________________
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http://www.tivo.com/support/
NOTE: I prefer e-mail to Private Messages. Due to the volume of e-mail I receive, please try to go through normal channels or post your question on the forum BEFORE contacting me directly, if possible. Thanks!

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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 03:03 AM
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rseligman
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1009

quote:
Originally posted by sublime
TiVo gave a free trial for HMO for the past 30 days. Nobody has been able to purchase it for that long since they took down that option from the website at the same time they made it a free trail. Nobody went in last week and paid full price. Nobody paid full price the week before. Nobody paid anything for HMO for the past 30 days. So how, exactly, were people screwed on this?
Hmm, you're right, but if TiVo planned it that way then that's actually pretty slimy of them! Basically they purposely fudged the schedule to prevent people from getting refunds that they deserved.

HMO actually became free on May 9. But TiVo knew that people who bought HMO in the 30 days leading up to the fee elimination would be able to get a refund. By starting a "free trial" on May 9, then turning that into "permanently free" on June 9, they made sure there were no purchasers in the 30 days prior to HMO becoming free.

But if they knew when they started the "trial" that it would become permanent at the end of the trial, then the "trial" was a lie. That seems quite disingenuous, and designed specifically to screw people out of refunds.

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ZeoTiVo is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 03:03 AM
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ZeoTiVo
One with the TiVo

Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
My goodness! Anyone who has worked with coordinating press releases (five press releases and a New York press event on Wednesday), changing billing systems (changes required to include the Home Media Option and allow for multiple subscription discounts), or creating agreements with new companies (Best Buy and Nikon) would be able to tell you that we have been working on these announcements for many months. And I have to tell you on a personal level, it took a lot of hard work from many people within TiVo's marketing, sales, business development, IT, service operations, engineering, accounting, finance and customer support groups to get here.


I respect the hard work you put into this exciting news for SA TiVos, I think it is an excellent business strategy and I very much look forward to the last months of this year for yet more TiVo press anouncements on how much better my TiVo is to be.

that being rightfully acknowledged - if it was known months ago that HMO was going to be bundled in and no longer a paid feature, why the marketing push for discounted HMO ? Why was there not a halt to HMO sales and the free trial started much sooner ?

it would be good to have answers to these questions. For me this is a blemish on an otherwise quality experience I am having with my TiVo and I would love to clean it up.

__________________
Whoops, missed that Zeo did address this in his reply. ZeoTiVo is right! - TiVoOpsMgr

TTiVoToGo FAQ, I have never seen a company so bashed in a forum becasue its software is a little late

  • TiVo series 2/HMO 40 hours unmodded - so far
  • Toshiba SD H400 for 99$
  • JavaHMO/ paid for my HMO whiner
  • AVcast to broadcast TiVo/DVD/PC throughout house and playfort
  • 5 at a time NetFlix subscription

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rogo is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 03:41 AM
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rogo
Advanced Member

Registered: Dec 1999
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By the way, the 3.4GHz Extreme Edition is no cheaper than $989 right now.

That's the lowest I can pay.

In two years, when the dual core chips are running at 4x the performance of that puppy, what will it sell for? Answer --> $100 or so.

I'm thinkin 90% depreciation of price is close enough to 100% that I'm done acknowledging the following argument has any validity:

Whereas Tivo is now giving something away, that is bad.

What next? We decry Costco for giving me 2x the paper towels of Safeway for 1/2 the money?

Uh, no.

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TiVoOpsMgr is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 03:42 AM
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TiVoOpsMgr
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Posts: 944

Zeo, that's a fair question, but even putting up the free trial and taking down order-taking for the Home Media Option takes quite a bit of time. We definitely did what we could to ramp down sales. Just curious, but how do you think we should have handled this differently?

Rseligman, I'm surprised you see it as an attempt to screw people out of refunds. It's entirely the opposite -- we have to set a cut off at some point, and we honestly did not want people to be upset at having purchased the Home Media Option a month before it became free. Where should we have put the cut off point? We are handling upset customers (for example, for the relatively small number of people who purchased the Home Media Option in April) on a case by case basis and we definitely are sensitive to people who feel they were misled or are upset. Honestly, I am at a loss for how you think we should have handled this better or differently.

Best regards,
Stephen

__________________
E. Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo (estephen@tivo.com)
http://www.tivo.com/support/
NOTE: I prefer e-mail to Private Messages. Due to the volume of e-mail I receive, please try to go through normal channels or post your question on the forum BEFORE contacting me directly, if possible. Thanks!

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DrStrange is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 03:42 AM
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DrStrange
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quote:
Originally posted by rseligman
Hmm, you're right, but if TiVo planned it that way then that's actually pretty slimy of them! Basically they purposely fudged the schedule to prevent people from getting refunds that they deserved.

ARGHH! No no no!

Had they continued to sell HMO during that free period you people who bought during the previous month still wouldn't have been able to get a refund! It wasn't about screwing the people who bought in April, it was about NOT "screwing" people who would have bought in May by not even taking their money to begin with! They were trying to keep the May people from doing the very bitching that the April (and some March, February, January, and 2003) people seem to be doing anyway! If they somehow cut the April people slack too then the March people will scream that much louder because they'll feel specifically targeted. rseligmans view of the situation just proves that no matter what Tivo does, there will be people who will see it in whatever way makes them a screwee so that they can whine for entitlements.

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mitchb2 is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:08 AM
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mitchb2
Advanced Member

Registered: Sep 2000
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This is very good news. I have to admit, I laughed at the price of HMO.

But this now makes the idea of a second Tivo VERY attractive, especially since we still don't have locals on DirecTV. A second Tivo would mean knocking out some conflicts.

I'm curious, for those who have used it, how is the remote scheduling?
Can you view your To Do list, search for shows, etc., remotely?

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esperantisto is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:10 AM
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esperantisto
La internacia lingvo

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Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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TiVoOpsMgr: TiVo should do something to "make good" for the people who paid. $99 is nowhere near what my limited time with limited HMO was worth to me. Also, a history of doing this sort of thing leads people to no longer buy new products, since "I'll probably get screwed in six months anyway..."

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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:20 AM
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rseligman
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1009

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
Rseligman, I'm surprised you see it as an attempt to screw people out of refunds. It's entirely the opposite -- we have to set a cut off at some point, and we honestly did not want people to be upset at having purchased the Home Media Option a month before it became free. Where should we have put the cut off point? We are handling upset customers (for example, for the relatively small number of people who purchased the Home Media Option in April) on a case by case basis and we definitely are sensitive to people who feel they were misled or are upset. Honestly, I am at a loss for how you think we should have handled this better or differently.
OK, I now believe that your intentions were good, and I apologize for suggesting otherwise.

I still think that proceding this way caused more harm than good.

You say that you "did not want people to be upset at having purchased the Home Media Option a month before it became free"? Well, the way you do that is you announce it's free on June 9, and in accordance with your policies you will provide everyone who bought it in the previous 30 days with a refund. There. Now everyone who purchased it a month before it became free is no longer upset, and no one feels misled.

Under the normal way that stores operate (the way I suggested above), the only upset customers are the ones that bought 31 days before the price cut. And although they complain anyway, they really have no leg to stand on.

But what TiVo did is set up a situation where customers who bought 1 day before the price cut are upset. So while I no longer believe you're evil, I still don't think it was handled the best way.

As always, thanks for responding and participating in these forums.

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ZeoTiVo is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:46 AM
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ZeoTiVo
One with the TiVo

Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr
Zeo, that's a fair question, but even putting up the free trial and taking down order-taking for the Home Media Option takes quite a bit of time. We definitely did what we could to ramp down sales. Just curious, but how do you think we should have handled this differently?

Rseligman, I'm surprised you see it as an attempt to screw people out of refunds. It's entirely the opposite -- we have to set a cut off at some point, and we honestly did not want people to be upset at having purchased the Home Media Option a month before it became free. Where should we have put the cut off point? We are handling upset customers (for example, for the relatively small number of people who purchased the Home Media Option in April) on a case by case basis and we definitely are sensitive to people who feel they were misled or are upset. Honestly, I am at a loss for how you think we should have handled this better or differently.

Best regards,
Stephen



and that is a fair question back.

really the arguments here have blown my disatisfaction somewhat out of proportion. The anonymous Internet will do that to you. Both sides of the debate seem surprised at the stubborness and intensity of the other side.

I am still not happy I paid for HMO in January and that gave me 4 months of use I would not have otherwise gotten. 25$ a month seems steep to me.

as for what to do different --
I think acknowledging the perceived loss of value by paid HMO users in some statement here or an email to paid HMO users timed in conjunction with the press anouncement would have gone a long way. Sometimes just simple acknowledgement and validation goes a long way.

Along with that I would be delighted beyond expectation if some type of discount on a future purchase is offered for a 3 or 6 month window. That seems to be fair as TiVo gets another subscription or premium feature in place and I get some of the value back I was not expecting to loose.

and of course , do what can be done to avoid a repeat with other features coming out. On this I do not have clear ideas as anything I can think of has drawbacks - monthly charge would have been bitched about endlessly (give us a one time charge) but on the flip side to announce no more monthly charge of 5$ for HMO would have had the board singing your praises . How you could market a premium feature now to be bundled for free later is problematic to me as well. Pay x dollars to have use of it this year while others wait for the freebie. You would have to have a 2 year strategy firmed up to do that sort of thing.

I have been watching/posting here the last two days to see what may be anounced here, soon Iwill probably contact a CSR and make my complaint on HMO at 99$ in January official if nothing is posted here. I would really like to see a discount on some purchase though as these anouncements certainly make a 2nd TiVo a much better deal than last week!

__________________
Whoops, missed that Zeo did address this in his reply. ZeoTiVo is right! - TiVoOpsMgr

TTiVoToGo FAQ, I have never seen a company so bashed in a forum becasue its software is a little late

  • TiVo series 2/HMO 40 hours unmodded - so far
  • Toshiba SD H400 for 99$
  • JavaHMO/ paid for my HMO whiner
  • AVcast to broadcast TiVo/DVD/PC throughout house and playfort
  • 5 at a time NetFlix subscription

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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:48 AM
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rseligman
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1009

quote:
Originally posted by DrStrange
rseligmans view of the situation just proves that no matter what Tivo does, there will be people who will see it in whatever way makes them a screwee so that they can whine for entitlements.
First of all, I almost didn't bother responding to your post, as I believe I presented my point of view very clearly and supported each of my points. Yet just because I disagreed with you, you immediately categorize my post as "whining" so you don't have to take it seriously.

However, I'll rise above that and admit that I now see your point more clearly. I think this is a situation where the execution makes economic sense and looks good on paper, but is perceived much differently in broad daylight.

quote:
They were trying to keep the May people from doing the very bitching that the April people seem to be doing anyway!
But the May people were entitled to bitch. That was built into the policy to begin with. What they should have done is let the May people bitch like they're supposed to, and then give them all refunds. That's consistent with their policy, and also would make TiVo seem responsive. But by preventing the May people from bitching, they made the April people now feel entitled to bitch when they're actually not.
quote:
If they somehow cut the April people slack too then the March people will scream that much louder because they'll feel specifically targeted.
If TiVo gave a refund to everyone who bought HMO 1 to 30 days before the price cut, I hardly think anyone would pay much attention to those who would complain about having bought on the 31st day.

By the way, I bought HMO almost a year ago, and I have no expectation of entitlement or refund (although I'll happily accept a free TiVoToGo dongle ) . I bought when the price was higher than it is now. That's the luck of the draw. In fact, as a result of the HMO and multi-sub price cuts, I yesterday purchased a second TiVo for my house.

This situation is different in that TiVo intentionally blocked sales before the price drop, thus creating a situation in which someone who bought HMO one hour before the effective price drop (on May 9) feels screwed. And while you can proabably demonstrate in a spreadsheet how they're not actually screwed, they could have been prevented from feeling that way in the first place.

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lajohn27 is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:54 AM
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lajohn27
TiVo Freek

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 288

DIRECTV Sell Off..

quote:
Originally posted by terminus303
It could be they are selling off those assets because they are bringing all those services inside. they have the satellites and own a PVR company so maybe they plan to sell satellite music and PVRs themselves and eliminate several of their outside suppliers.


I assure you that this was all part of a play to raise cash.

DirecTV sold off their investments in the "Hughes" division that builds satellites.. and another that builds receivers. Are they going to now try to re-build those divisions from scratch?

No. They are not.

Are they going to stop using satellites or receivers?

No they are not.

Are they going to dump TIVO tomorrow?

No they are not.

Are they going to introduce their own NDS PVR?

Yeah, probably they are - but lets face it - that's not the end of the world.

J

__________________
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TIVO S2 140060 100 HR
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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 04:55 AM
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rseligman
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1009

quote:
Originally posted by esperantisto
TiVoOpsMgr: TiVo should do something to "make good" for the people who paid. $99 is nowhere near what my limited time with limited HMO was worth to me.
It's too bad you feel that way, but that's a completely subjective judgment and TiVo has no responsibility to you because of it. I bought a waffle iron last year that's now selling for half price. I only used it once, so I don't feel I got my money's worth. Am I entitled to a refund?

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TiVoOpsMgr is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:04 AM
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TiVoOpsMgr
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Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Alviso, CA, USA
Posts: 944

Folks, I definitely want to reinforce: If you are upset about what you paid for the Home Media Option, please call Customer Support (1-877-367-8486, 8am to 8pm Pacific, seven days a week) and explain your situation. We will definitely do what we can for you on a case-by-case basis.

Overall, we want people to be thrilled with the TiVo service. We definitely had to make some hard decisions about the Home Media Features and how to handle the changes. We worked hard to be as fair as possible.

Bottom line, I'm overjoyed to be able to tell this to my friends and family: If you walk into Best Buy today, you can pick up a 40-hour Series2 DVR for as little as $129 after rebate. For new subscribers, it's just $12.95 a month for the great TiVo service -- and now all of the Home Media Features are included. If you're an existing subscriber, it's even better: Last week you would have had to pay $49 for the Home Media Option on your second unit, and Monthly TiVo service would have cost you $12.95. Today, the Home Media Features are included, and service is only $6.95 per month for that second unit. Everyone in this thread can now take advantage of the new lower pricing for a second (or third, or fourth...) unit.

Some of you saw a price cut this week: For example, if you have a Series1 unit with Product Lifetime service, and a Series2 unit with Monthly service, then last month we charged you $12.95. Now, next month you'll only be charged $6.95!

We appreciate the input and feedback from the forum. We understand that some people will be upset. While we did our best, we know that we can't always please everyone. But if you're upset, please call us and give us a chance to make things right. Overall, we hope that everyone will be as thrilled as we are with the new opportunities and more attractive pricing that EVERYONE can now take advantage of.

Best regards,
Stephen

__________________
E. Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo (estephen@tivo.com)
http://www.tivo.com/support/
NOTE: I prefer e-mail to Private Messages. Due to the volume of e-mail I receive, please try to go through normal channels or post your question on the forum BEFORE contacting me directly, if possible. Thanks!

Last edited by TiVoOpsMgr on 06-11-2004 at 05:14 AM

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HTH is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:10 AM
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HTH
No Avatar Selected

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I paid for early access to the features, and for the lifetime service transfers. I have no complaints about that.

Shouldn't it be "Home Media Feature" now? Seeing as it is no longer optional?

And why did both my Series2 units reboot last night?

About the pricing, since I have two units with Lifetime, can I get 10 discounted monthly rates on the same account? If I were to split the two Lifetime units into different accounts, would I no longer be able to share shows between them even if in the same home?

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ZeoTiVo is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:10 AM
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ZeoTiVo
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TiVoOpsMgr -
thanks for diving into a hot topic and acknowledging the situation

__________________
Whoops, missed that Zeo did address this in his reply. ZeoTiVo is right! - TiVoOpsMgr

TTiVoToGo FAQ, I have never seen a company so bashed in a forum becasue its software is a little late

  • TiVo series 2/HMO 40 hours unmodded - so far
  • Toshiba SD H400 for 99$
  • JavaHMO/ paid for my HMO whiner
  • AVcast to broadcast TiVo/DVD/PC throughout house and playfort
  • 5 at a time NetFlix subscription

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TiVoOpsMgr is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:11 AM
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TiVoOpsMgr
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Posts: 944

HTH, right you are. It's now the Home Media Features:

http://www.tivo.com/1.2.13.asp

__________________
E. Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo (estephen@tivo.com)
http://www.tivo.com/support/
NOTE: I prefer e-mail to Private Messages. Due to the volume of e-mail I receive, please try to go through normal channels or post your question on the forum BEFORE contacting me directly, if possible. Thanks!

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ZeoTiVo is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:14 AM
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ZeoTiVo
One with the TiVo

Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by HTH

If I were to split the two Lifetime units into different accounts, would I no longer be able to share shows between them even if in the same home?




now there is a dodge they may have not worked through

I think they have to be on the same account to share shows right now
but
the survey asked about sharing personal videos between accounts, wonder how far they would take that idea.

__________________
Whoops, missed that Zeo did address this in his reply. ZeoTiVo is right! - TiVoOpsMgr

TTiVoToGo FAQ, I have never seen a company so bashed in a forum becasue its software is a little late

  • TiVo series 2/HMO 40 hours unmodded - so far
  • Toshiba SD H400 for 99$
  • JavaHMO/ paid for my HMO whiner
  • AVcast to broadcast TiVo/DVD/PC throughout house and playfort
  • 5 at a time NetFlix subscription

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rsnaider is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:23 AM
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rsnaider
TiVo Forum Special Member

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Posts: 1997

quote:
Originally posted by HTH

And why did both my Series2 units reboot last night?




Minor software update for all Series 2 SA boxes. You should now have 4.0.1b-02-2-xxx. Notice the 02 after the 1b which used be 01.

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Ron

TiVo | SERlES2 - 302 Hrs
TiVo | SONY SVR3000 - 273 Hrs

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