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>>> Panasonic/TIVO support must DIE (avoid 810 at all costs) <<<

 
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dugbug is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 05:48 PM
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dugbug
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Angry Pioneer/TIVO support must DIE (avoid 810 at all costs)

Well after talking with tech support about the loud clicking (almost a hammering), freezing up, rebooting, and high pitched whine from the tivo I was told the HD was bad and to send it in.

At my expense ($30), we shipped off the tivo and it finally arrived yesterday with a note saying "all reported problems have been fully resolved." Upon inspection of the actual repair sheet however, it said something like:

Freezing: No parts.

Wha? No parts? We called support up and asked what they did. I shipped the damn tivo who knows how many miles, so a tech guy could select "restart" and return it. How can they be this incompetent? It was tech support that told me the HD was dying and to send it in in the first place (unless loud clicking and freezing are features).

Yep, all they did was restart. The box was not opened, the HD was not inspected, they just selected the same damn menu option thats on the system menu. This is the last TIVO Ill own.

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Last edited by dugbug on 06-23-2004 at 09:13 PM

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CrispyCritter is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 06:12 PM
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Re: Panasonic/TIVO support must DIE (avoid 810 at all costs)

quote:
Originally posted by dugbug
Yep, all they did was restart. The box was not opened, the HD was not inspected, they just selected the same damn menu option thats on the system menu. This is the last TIVO Ill own.
I sympathize with your problems; you were definitely unlucky and badly treated. But why are you blaming TiVo rather than Pioneer? It's Pioneer's hardware and support people.

There are several other manufacturers of TiVo DVR recorders coming out soon (at least Toshiba and Humax).

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maharg18 is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 06:36 PM
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I agree... Your blame should be focused toward Pioneer, not Tivo.

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ellinj is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 08:27 PM
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ellinj
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quote:
Originally posted by maharg18
I agree... Your blame should be focused toward Pioneer, not Tivo.


and definetly not panasonic

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dugbug is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 09:14 PM
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My bad, pioneer. I edited the post.

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GoodSpike is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 09:18 PM
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Did you include in the package a description of all the symptoms?

Typically I find factory repair places good (e.g. Sony) but I have found some to be incompetent (e.g. Alpine). But none of them are going to do a good job without the person actually doing the repair having a good description of what's going on.

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Stu_Bee is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 11:54 PM
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Re: Pioneer/TIVO support must DIE (avoid 810 at all costs)

quote:
Originally posted by dugbug
Yep, all they did was restart.


You didn't mention whether the issue is still occuring.
If it isn't happening any more then I doubt they just restarted it, since you had already done that prior to sending it.

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Poodles1 is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 12:17 AM
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Poodles1
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Talking Blame the right people...

It sounds like the click of death - Bad Hard Drive!!! What you heard is more than likely either a bad hard drive or something hitting the cooloing fan. If the problem doesn't happen again in short order, it was more than likely something hitting the fan, and when you shipped it back, the obstruction was bounced out of the way.

If you were hearing a triple click, click, click, then you more than likely have what will turn out to be a bad hard drive, and that is a Maxtor problem, not Tivo, or Pioneer.

From the techs perspective, if it booted up fine for him/her then they have to assume it was a random issue. Seeing that it is Linux, I am sure they can run a fair number of system tests w/o opening the case.

I don't now where you live, but I ship full computer systems (insured @ $2-3K) via UPS for under $25 (with pickup) all the time. So, if you spent $30 for a $700 component, you got ripped off there.

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dugbug is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 03:36 AM
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On the restart question, I think I mean "reset". Whatever is the option that causes the Tivo to resort to factory defaults. According to the tech center records conveyed to us via the customer support phone call, thats all they did.

The problem (clicks and freezes) is intermittent, which I explained to tech support prior to them requesting I send it in to replace the HD. Further, we did include a description of the problem in the box. And it is a series of clicks when it happens. Not sure if its three or more than three. I don't know if/when it will happen again, but obviously they haven't really done anything about it other than perhaps file defragmentation as a result of the reset.

Pioneer covers the hd under their warrantee (just like all the other hardware), so they should have replaced it.

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ZeoTiVo is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 05:00 AM
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Frankly,
postings on this board kept me from getting a pioneer 810 as I did not want any issues with a DVD recorder model when I get one. Now with this post combined with the postings on other pioneer answers to the other problems I am not really big on getting a pioneer any kind of unit.

oh well. but I will definitely buy another TiVo unit , and want one with a DVD recorder in it, so yes this is a Pioneer support problem on bad hardware they sold not a TiVo porblem they just supplied the engineering model.

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spankspank is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 06:38 AM
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Maxtor hard drives are a bad support issue for any company that uses them.

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outerlimits is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 09:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by spankspank
Maxtor hard drives are a bad support issue for any company that uses them.


Opinions like this vary and as they say everyones got one. One the biggest mistakes TIVO users make is letting the hard drive run at to high of temps. People think they can bake these things at 45, 50 55 degress celsius 7 X 24, in poorly ventilated areas, enclosed entertainment centers and then expect these drives to live forever.

The OP should have gotten better and the correct service from pioneer but the lesson here is do it yourself. Not only does the job get done correctly but the OP would have saved himself time and money.

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dugbug is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 09:20 PM
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So maybe its a ventilation issue?

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Poodles1 is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 12:18 AM
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More than likely not a heat issue.

The click of death can be random at first (I've seen it happen on drives once or twice and then wait 6 months to a year before returning in full force) but generally, it will simply get progressively worse till the drive simply won't allow the system to load.

Looking at my current HD RMA pile, I have no less than 6 drives under warranty which have the click of death (WD, Seagate, and Maxtor). According to the data recovery company I use, it seems to be associated with bad head/arm actuators and not heat. Now, they also tell me, if the motor fails to spin up or you hear a high-pitched whine, then it is more than likely an over heating issue.

In general, TiVo boxes don't use 7200 or 10,000 RPM drives. While there are (in my view - bizarre!) claims that the faster RPM drives drop frames and cause digital artifacts, I would bet these companies use the slower drives for 3 main reasons: Cost, Noise, and Heat. The drive you have is more than likely a Maxtor 80Gb, 5400 RPM, 2Mb Cache, AV drive.

If you have an open ticket (the # used for your RMA) at Pioneer, and the problem persists, make sure that you ask for a manager next time and demand that all shipping costs be covered by them until the problem is resolved. Most large companies have open accounts with FedEx or UPS, and all you will need is an authorization number from Pioneer to have it shipped back. I have had to do this with several companies over RMAs and it usually requires a managers approval.

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lajohn27 is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 04:45 AM
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RE: Drive Speed affecting TIVO...

I've upgraded and worked on almost 6 different TIVOs the past year and upgraded them all with 7200 RPM drives... with no frame drops, digital artifacts or other image problems.

One unit did run a little hotter afterwards and I've corrected that issue.

J

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Braden is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 04:48 AM
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I'd like to be one of the few (and proud!) that speak up for the Pioneer DVD-Recorder/TiVo units. We bought ours (the 120-hour unit) last November, right after they came out, and we could not be happier. The ability to record shows to DVD on the fly is awesome, and we have not had any hardware or software-related problems (knock on wood). Sure, we have some minor complaints about the picture quality, but those seem really minor when I can queue up say, a week's worth of recorded episodes of "Dallas" and burn them to DVD within minutes. I'm sure someone will extol the virtues of copying the programs to their computer and burning them that way, or using a separate DVD Recorder that can do it cheaper, but for us, between the DVD-recording functionality and the ease of use and integration between TiVo and the DVD Recorder, it's been a great unit, and the second-best AV appliance we've ever bought (behind our Series-1 Sony TiVo).

And if you want to search the forums for "failed hard drives" you'll probably find a lot of posts (especially with the Series-1 units) just as you would if you searched a Compaq, or Dell, or Gateway, or IBM, etc. forum for the same thing. Remember people, it's a computer, and it doesn't always work perfectly. But put the blame where it belongs...

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Poodles1 is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 12:48 PM
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Hey Braden, I could not agree more, I have an 810 and it is the 2nd best piece of electronic equipment I have bought in that last 5 years (#1 goes to my Nikon D70).

As I have tried to say, it is all about the HD. People need to keep in mind that virtually EVERY HD manufacturer over the last 3 years has progressively gone from 5 year, to 3 year, to 1 year, and now, to 90 day warranties. You know why, the drives are too big, too fast (produce too much heat), and turned out in too large a quantity to be made reliable! Why is it that a 15,000RPM SCSI drive still has a 5 year warranty and a 7200RPM IDE doesn't? It all goes back to quality of workmanship!

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TLBTivo is offline Old Post 06-28-2004 02:00 AM
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I had the same problem after owning the 810 for about a month. I sent it to Pioneer ($12) and had it back within 8 days and it has been fine ever since.

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cptodd is offline Old Post 06-28-2004 09:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Braden
I'd like to be one of the few (and proud!) that speak up for the Pioneer DVD-Recorder/TiVo units. We bought ours (the 120-hour unit) last November, right after they came out, and we could not be happier. The ability to record shows to DVD on the fly is awesome, and we have not had any hardware or software-related problems (knock on wood). Sure, we have some minor complaints about the picture quality, but those seem really minor when I can queue up say, a week's worth of recorded episodes of "Dallas" and burn them to DVD within minutes. I'm sure someone will extol the virtues of copying the programs to their computer and burning them that way, or using a separate DVD Recorder that can do it cheaper, but for us, between the DVD-recording functionality and the ease of use and integration between TiVo and the DVD Recorder, it's been a great unit, and the second-best AV appliance we've ever bought (behind our Series-1 Sony TiVo).

And if you want to search the forums for "failed hard drives" you'll probably find a lot of posts (especially with the Series-1 units) just as you would if you searched a Compaq, or Dell, or Gateway, or IBM, etc. forum for the same thing. Remember people, it's a computer, and it doesn't always work perfectly. But put the blame where it belongs...



Guess I will be # 3 to speak up for my Pioneer unit! I agree with everything that Braden has said! I even like it better than my Series 1 Sony unit and my Series 2 TiVo unit!

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dfinlay587 is offline Old Post 06-28-2004 11:25 AM
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Has the software been upgraded recently? I have had my 810 since December 2003, and it seems that the picture quality is getting better, and I have not seen "Transient Pixelation" in a long time.

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