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TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo
>>> HMO - overpriced / paying twice ?! <<<
HMO pricing - what do you think is best ?
This poll is closed.
Current pricing - $99 + $49 each additional + $13/month EVERY unit 15 11.45%
$59 + $0 each additional + $13/month EVERY unit 27 20.61%
$59 + $49 each additional + $13/month on 1st unit only 89 67.94%
Total: 131 votes 100%
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ukaussi is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 04:12 AM
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ukaussi
TiVoholic

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Ladera Ranch, So OC, CA
Posts: 59

Lightbulb HMO - overpriced / paying twice ?!

I have signed up for the trial & ordered a 2nd Series2 (40GB this time as have 80GB) over the weekend from Amazon so I can try out the sharing/transfer feature as this would be 95% of the reason to get HMO (5% pictures, 0% music).

My biggest objection is that if you want to share shows between DVR's you effectively have to pay TWICE.

FIRST, you have to pay $99 for 1st TiVo and $49 for any others in your house.
SECOND, you have to have an active TiVo subscription on EVERY TiVo you want to share with so that's an extra $13/month for your 2nd, 3rd etc TiVo's

My problem with this is maybe just personal but I am sure it will stop some people from purchasing the option.

Ideally, I would like a Tivo in all 3 viewing areas (Bedroom, media/bonus room & family room) and be able to watch any show from any TiVo. I only want ONE of the TiVo's to have Season Pass etc that you get with the subscriptions.

My recommendation would be either:-
- $59 flat fee per TiVo household (still need $13/month TiVo premium service on ALL TiVo's)
or
- $59 1st & $49 subsequent but only ONE Premium subscription required

Does this seem unreasonable ?

Vote what you think please...

Last edited by ukaussi on 01-14-2004 at 04:19 AM

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ScottE22 is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 07:58 AM
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ScottE22
Digitally Obese

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Coconut Creek, FL
Posts: 928

I'd love to have another TiVo but the price has been putting me off for a while. I'm looking at $200 for the Tivo, $99 + $49 ~ $150 to activate HMO on both, $13/month x 2 for service, plus probably $100 in networking equipment to get them online. That's almost $450 in "start up" costs plus $26/month...

I love my TiVo, but dang! Most of us work for a living here!!







I'll probably be buying one anyway...

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W Auggie H is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 06:51 PM
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W Auggie H
Tivo Enthusiast

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 170

I have been holding out too for HMO for a while because I am one of those that would like to see the price come down. So far that has paid off because originally the price was $150 for the first and $50 for the second. You really have to put some of this into context. At the moment you can't buy a standalone DAR(or what ever you want to call a networked device to view pictures, music, etc... from your pc or internet) for under $150. So for that TiVo is a bargain. As the prices come down for more of these types of products we may see another price adjustment.

__________________
W Auggie H

Humax DRT800 DVD-R/TiVo(80hr) - networked w/ D-Link DUB-E100 (Ethernet)
TiVo Series2(80hr) - networked w/ D-Link DUB-E100 (Ethernet)
Philips 30PW850H 30" Widescreen HDTV

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ScottE22 is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 08:45 PM
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ScottE22
Digitally Obese

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Coconut Creek, FL
Posts: 928

Re: HMO - overpriced / paying twice ?!

quote:
Originally posted by ukaussi
My recommendation would be either:-
- $59 flat fee per TiVo household (still need $13/month TiVo premium service on ALL TiVo's)
or
- $59 1st & $49 subsequent but only ONE Premium subscription required
[/B]


I would even suggest a third option... I also subscribe to XM radio and they have what I think is a fair pricing model... I believe that it is $9.99 for monthly service on your first unit and $4.99 per unit per month for up to a certain number (I think 4?) of additional units.

TiVo could charge the $12.99/month for the first unit on the account and then $6.99 for each additional TiVo. DirecTV works like this as well... TiVo is the only service that comes to mind where you don't get some kind of a reduced rate on service fees for additional units...

Cell phones (Think "Family Plans"...)
DirecTV
XM Radio
Digital cable
...

Can you imagine if your ISP charged you for every connected network device in your house? I know that the TiVo service is more complex than simply providing an Internet connection, but I think that some consideration should be made to those of us who live (or who would like to live!) in homes with multiple TiVos!!

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 09:21 PM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

quote:
Originally posted by W Auggie H
...originally the price was $150 for the first and $50 for the second...


Actually, HMO was never $150 for the first unit. I've owned HMO from the very beginning and it was $99 for the first and $49 for each subsequent unit on the same account.

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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married_man is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 10:06 PM
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married_man
New Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 19

quote:
Originally posted by W Auggie H
At the moment you can't buy a standalone DAR(or what ever you want to call a networked device to view pictures, music, etc... from your pc or internet) for under $150.


Actually, you can get one for $100.

http://www.hauppauge.com/html/mediamvp_datasheet.htm

Last edited by married_man on 01-14-2004 at 10:13 PM

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ukaussi is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 05:25 AM
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ukaussi
TiVoholic

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Ladera Ranch, So OC, CA
Posts: 59

I think TiVo may end up losing some potential HMO customers who have HDTV because of this:-

HDTV Cable Box with HD PVR

Just came across the info over on the AV Forum.

Main highlights:-
- HDTV cable with DVI out
- intenal 80GB hard drive that records HDTV !!
- 1394 firewire port which allows hard drive expansion !!
- 10/100 base T Ethernet port

As I am getting a HDTV projector soon I am now definitely not buying HMO. I will just get the box above.

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Oxygen99 is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 06:32 AM
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Oxygen99
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Registered: Oct 2003
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Posts: 19

I have this box and pay $5 a month for it, currently it does noting but show me HDTV from Comcast.

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 09:06 AM
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Austin Bike
Member

Registered: Feb 2003
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Posts: 123

Microsoft is going to have a box called a Media Center Extender this fall that will let you extend a Media Center PC to multiple rooms. Up to 5 will be supported and each can stream something different.

I would recommend that TiVo seriously consider this as a threat to their business model. Imagine a home server tied to multiple TV's in the house. One is playing a movie, one is watching live TV, one is playing MP3's and one is watching a recodrd TV show.

Life is starting to get interesting.

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whanner is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 09:54 AM
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whanner
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Registered: Jan 2004
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Posts: 2

Wink slow down folks!

Hi all
I've had TiVo since Christmas and I like it but from what I've seen so far TiVo will nickel and dime you to death if you let them. this home media option is does nothing more that your P.C. does every day (file sharing) this should be part of the standard package. if we drop a dime every time they come out with something TiVo will cost more than the service they deliver. cable, direct TV etc... ( they charge to much as well):-)
my wife got me this for Christmas and when I think of how much its cost me so far (about $620.00) its crazy! try and pass on the media option and send them a message. burn your pictures and MP3's/WMA's to a CD and play them on a $30 DVD player you may already have.

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shuotari is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 11:16 AM
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shuotari
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Registered: Jul 2003
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Posts: 10

HMO and new PC/DVD option

I now have two tivo series2 and one series1. I have HMO on both my Series two units. Now I have to buy the PC/DVD option in the Fall to record to my PC and burn DVDs that I can watch on my DVD player and free up some space on my Tivo. I feel that the PC option should be fairly inexpensive for HMO option owners (or free if you consider that this should have been part of the HMO product).

I guess I have had Tivo for about 4 years now, am a very loyal customer and feel that I really have spent enough on the products. I feel that they should respect their loyal customers in some way and just give us the new feature as a "Wow, look what we are giving you" kind of thing.

And what is this USB dongle idea for copy protection... BAD IDEA!!!!

I know, R&D costs money, but with all of the new home networking products being pushed, I think that they really are going to be a thing of the past if they keep nickel and diming us over and over and over again.

299 x 2 = lifetime for two
99 for my first HMO
49 for my second HMO
249 for my first Series2
249 for my second Series2
~499 for my old series1
299 for my lifetime on the series one

Now... How much is this new thing for recording my shows to DVD going to cost.....

Sorry for the Rant, but thought I would vent a little...

Scott

PS. Did I say thank you for the great product?

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stigerj is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 01:11 AM
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stigerj
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Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 5

I would love to have a second Tivo and add the HMO, but I'm not willing to fork out the $100. I bought HMO for my TiVo when they had the special for $50.


If the extra cost has to do with the remote scheduling piece I would be willing to lose that option on the second DVR (or third, etc.) for a lower (or no) additional cost.

-Jeff

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ukaussi is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 01:53 AM
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ukaussi
TiVoholic

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Ladera Ranch, So OC, CA
Posts: 59

I played around with this now for a few days with the exception of sharing programs between TiVo's (just got 2nd unit Friday and don't have trial HMO on that) and I personally do not see paying anything for any of the features.
I also think that if you pay for the premium TiVo service you should get the file sharing between TiVo's as part of the package.

My opinion is that they should make the options a la carte of package them as MONTHLY add-ons just like cable TV. Paying $100 + $49 + cost of monthly service doesn't make any economic sense to me and I have the spare income to pay for it. Come 12 months or less down the road and there will be something better from someone else like Linksys or another major player.

TiVo may just be trying to get some positive cash flow going by making them pay up-front for stuff as they are not making a net profit yet. I think they are on the wrong track, just look at the way cable companies have been successful with this, also phone companies do the same a la carte.

Our company also provides services to Hospitals but rather than charging extra for the new handheld technology we are rolling out to our nurses and Dr's we give it as part of our overall package to show that we have a better product.

My 2cents so far

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 03:43 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

quote:
Originally posted by stigerj
I would love to have a second Tivo and add the HMO, but I'm not willing to fork out the $100. I bought HMO for my TiVo when they had the special for $50.


If the extra cost has to do with the remote scheduling piece I would be willing to lose that option on the second DVR (or third, etc.) for a lower (or no) additional cost.

-Jeff



The cost of adding HMO to a second (or third or fourth or ...) TiVo is only $49 and not $100

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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tomnewton is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 09:01 AM
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tomnewton
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Registered: Mar 2003
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I agree with the thread: I haven't shelled out for the second TiVo player or service because it is way too expensive. TiVo had the bright idea of putting a PC in a media device, and now Microsoft has put the media device in a PC. The kinks are not worked out yet, but then HMO is far from perfect, either. But whatever issues there are today will be mostly gone in a year or two; if TiVo doesn't get smart fast by making their service ubiquitous, they'll be just another MS roadkill victim.

Pricing leverage is not all that strong, either. Fundamentally, HMO is not that hard a nut to crack. I can plug my iPod into a docking station connected to the TV (or my computer, or the Wave radio in the kitchen) for $70 each location. I can plug my digital camera into my TV. Perhaps not exactly the same, but in some ways better.

There is another option that doesn't involve a second DVR -- there are cable devices that will "route" the appropriate signal from a TV, DVR, DVD or other device to a specific TV, and also can relay the IR signals via the cable wire. While this doesn't let two people watch TiVo at the same time, two different devices can be active (e.g. kids watch a DVD and parents watch TiVO) and it probably does a better job than the two-TiVo option (since no copies need to be made), and supoprts multi-room HMO, as well. Total, one-time hardware cost for this is around $150.

Hope they're listening at TiVo.

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 09:18 AM
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Austin Bike
Member

Registered: Feb 2003
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Yes, this is the one to beat:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/...es/extender.asp

5 different devices off of a single desktop.

I hope the marketing folks at TiVo are listening.

I would buy a second TiVo just for HMO - and never record off of it. Just as a viewer. But the activation is too much. I'm out $500 and the reality is I would only probably record off of one.

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tv_danny is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 09:35 AM
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tv_danny
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More support for the sentiment of this thread!

HMO pricing is too high, and actually deters the spread of Tivo. Like many others, I would be willing to purchase multiple units for the HMO capabilities (show transfer, etc...) but not only do I have to shell out $99 for the first HMO, but $49 for each after that + $13/month for each extra machine... I think not.

Love the Tivo unit I've got, but I think it's a bit pricey right now even for the basic sub. When I speak about the 'Tivo experience' with others, they get excited until they hear about the price of the sub...

Tivo.. if you're going to fend off all the new technologies, you gotta make this thing 'sticky', which means including capabilities like HMO in the basic unit and sub. I understand the cost of providing subscription services (so I shell out the $13/mo), but I don't see the costs you incur for the HMO. In fact, since I have to set up on my home network and provide an Internet connection to Tivo (at least for remote schedule), the costs to Tivo actually go down (no more phone center to support)!

I'm willing to invest additional hardware $$'s to connect my machine to the net, and glad if they lower your costs, if I get something out of the equation (like remote scheduling and/or other HMO capabilities), but I don't think I have to pay Tivo for this privilege.

"Total entertainment" PC's are becoming reality, with lots more capabilities than Tivo, and I'm sure someone is going to find a way to provide 'free' program guide data -- in exchange for ads and/or viewer monitoring (both of what Tivo gets now).

I'd love to see Tivo get a profitable business model together... and volume is it... Pricing HMO in their current manner doesn't do it for me (and probably for many others).

I'll enjoy my Tivo for another year or two before it falls to another technology. Get with it Tivo!

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tivoreffic is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 09:48 AM
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tivoreffic
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Tivo will be driven out of the market by Microsoft if they don't get with the program and reevaluate their pricing. It's too expensive! And HMO should be included, I can't believe they have the gall to charge $100 for it AND in addition $13/mo per each Tivo you own!

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opchiasm is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 09:11 PM
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opchiasm
Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 73

This is all interesting, but begs the question:

Does Tivo care what you or I think?

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Redleg is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 11:30 PM
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Redleg
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: GR Michigan
Posts: 1010

quote:
Originally posted by opchiasm
This is all interesting, but begs the question:

Does Tivo care what you or I think?

Based on past threads and TiVo's eventual actions, in general I'd say yes. There are TiVo decision makers who monitor these forums.

That doesn't mean that in this or any other matter they can do anything about it, but my sense over the years is that TiVo does listen.

To the current issue, as a niche-within-a-niche, HMO is a little pricey. To a two-Tivo household, though, $150 is a decent price for the funcionality, based on the current technology out there.

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