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>>> HMO amd Macs? It works? Not for me <<<

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 11:22 PM
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nlbford
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HMO amd Macs? It works? Not for me

I am hoping someone can help me figure out what the heck I am doing wrong, because clearly some people have neem successful in getting HMO to work with their Mac network.

I have been wanting to try HMO for awhile, but as with many things involving the Mac and the rest of the "PC based World" I expected troubles in doing so and thus I have been hesitant to layout the money to activate the option lest it was more trouble than it is worth.

When they announced the Free Trial Period, I figured it was a good opportunity to do so relatively risk free (of course I still had to layout the $ for the wireless adapter), so I tracked down the recommended wireless adapter (not easy) and successfully got it to see my network - at least accoridng to the setup screen it is receiving the network at "85%". So step one seems to be OK. I have dowloaded and successfully loaded the Tivo Server software and have gone to the System Preferencces and activated the "Publish My Photos" button there on both of my Macs (one G4 dual 800 with OSX 10.2.8 and a Titanium Powerbook with the same OS version). That seems to be OK as well because it DOES show my various albums etc. in it's list. I have restarted all the Macs on my network. All looks good at this point and from what I can see of the instructions I have followed all the required steps.

Now the problem . . . the TiVo now shows the "Musics and Photos" option in the TiVo menu, yet when I select it it comes up with the message that it can't see any TiVo servers on the network. I have tried to enter the IP manually, but that brought no joy either. I have gone through the PDF available on the site that covers HMO, and tried all the trouble shooting things mentioned there. Still no luck.

What gives? Obviously there is something that isn't setup right or I am doing incorrectly. Anyone have any ideas what that might be?

Any assists would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 11:35 PM
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bedelman
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What you're having is not a Macintosh issue. It would appear to be a network issue. There are two entries that you should always see on the Music and Photos screen -- these are entries for Music at TiVo online and Photos at TiVo online. Since you don't see those either, I would speculate that your TiVo isn't connecting to the internet (and possibly your network).

Have you tried to perform the test connection or regular connection to the TiVo service from the Phone & Network settings screen?

If I were to guess, I presume that you have some security enabled on your wireless network which has to be included in your configuration of the wireless settings on your TiVo. Any details you can provide regarding the wireless USB adapter and wireless access point/router you're using would be useful.

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
What you're having is not a Macintosh issue. It would appear to be a network issue. There are two entries that you should always see on the Music and Photos screen -- these are entries for Music at TiVo online and Photos at TiVo online. Since you don't see those either, I would speculate that your TiVo isn't connecting to the internet (and possibly your network).

Have you tried to perform the test connection or regular connection to the TiVo service from the Phone & Network settings screen?

If I were to guess, I presume that you have some security enabled on your wireless network which has to be included in your configuration of the wireless settings on your TiVo. Any details you can provide regarding the wireless USB adapter and wireless access point/router you're using would be useful.



Thanks for the info. As for the wireless adapter I am using the Linksys one they recommend and it IS the version 2.6 they recommend (it is the one they show picture of on the TiVo website). The network runs off an Airport basestation and Airport cards on the Macs. Both the Macs have no problem connecting to the internet. The base station is running off of the cable modem provided by my Broadband ISP. I have had a couple of occasional problems with the Macs seeing eachother, but they can see the public folders and print remotely.

Should I not pay attention to the status page in settings that states it sees my network and is receiving a signal? Because I definitely only see "Manually Setup Server . . ." when I go to "Music and Photos" and have never seen the two options you say I should.

Does any of this info help?

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Dennis Wilkinson is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:03 AM
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With 10.2.8, it could possibly be that you have out-of-date copies of iTunes/iPhoto, or have installed the right ones and not yet run them to update their databases. I saw a similar issue to this when getting a different Jaguar system up-and-running on HMO several months ago. It could be that the TiVo could see the LAN but not the WAN, thus the lack of "Music/Photos on TiVo Online" items.

Overall, though, I'd agree that Bob's answer of this being a TiVo network issue as being more likely. The TiVo sees the network -- is it getting an IP address?

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:25 AM
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nlbford
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Wilkinson
With 10.2.8, it could possibly be that you have out-of-date copies of iTunes/iPhoto, or have installed the right ones and not yet run them to update their databases. I saw a similar issue to this when getting a different Jaguar system up-and-running on HMO several months ago. It could be that the TiVo could see the LAN but not the WAN, thus the lack of "Music/Photos on TiVo Online" items.


I am running the iPhoto and iTunes versions recommended, but can say the databases have been updated as you say. I will run an update and see if that helps.

quote:
Overall, though, I'd agree that Bob's answer of this being a TiVo network issue as being more likely. The TiVo sees the network -- is it getting an IP address?


Well the settings page says it sees the network, but I did notice it lists the IP address as starting with 169 . . . which in my experience has meant bad things on the Mac itself as far as connnectivity and have been told (rightly or wrongly) that a 169 address is in effect a sign of an error, I just figured it may not mean much given that the TiVo says it is getting a strong signal.

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:52 AM
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bedelman
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quote:
Originally posted by nlbford
I am running the iPhoto and iTunes versions recommended, but can say the databases have been updated as you say. I will run an update and see if that helps.
Let's address the network issue first.
quote:
Well the settings page says it sees the network, but I did notice it lists the IP address as starting with 169 . . . which in my experience has meant bad things on the Mac itself as far as connnectivity and have been told (rightly or wrongly) that a 169 address is in effect a sign of an error, I just figured it may not mean much given that the TiVo says it is getting a strong signal.
Yep - the 169... address is a self-assigned address. It means that although the TiVo can see the signal, it's not able to join your network. I'll wager that you have a password enabled on your Base Station (this is also called WEP -- Wireless Encryption Protocol). You need to put the "hexadecimal" version of this password into the wireless settings on your TiVo.

To get the password, launch the Apple Airport Admin Utility. Double-click on your base station to "open" it. When the window opens, you should see a padlock icon at the top of the window labeled "password". Click on this. It should give you the "network equivalent password" or "hex key". You need to use this value in the wireless settings area on the TiVo.

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1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 01:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
Let's address the network issue first.Yep - the 169... address is a self-assigned address. It means that although the TiVo can see the signal, it's not able to join your network. I'll wager that you have a password enabled on your Base Station (this is also called WEP -- Wireless Encryption Protocol). You need to put the "hexadecimal" version of this password into the wireless settings on your TiVo.

To get the password, launch the Apple Airport Admin Utility. Double-click on your base station to "open" it. When the window opens, you should see a padlock icon at the top of the window labeled "password". Click on this. It should give you the "network equivalent password" or "hex key". You need to use this value in the wireless settings area on the TiVo.



THANKS!

This is sounding promising - at least I can make sense of it (clearly seeing the Network is not the same as being able to ccommunicate with it). It may also answer a couple of unrelated questions I have had in the past.

My only question is, this means I DON'T use the Alpha-Numeric password I use to connect my Macs to the Network, correct? Or do I use both? (sorry if I sound like a dolt).

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 02:01 AM
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bedelman
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Correct -- you do not use the same password (if you really want to know, there's a detailed reason why below).

You need to get the "Hex equivalent password" by using the Apple Airport Admin Utility as I covered above. This will give a different value which will be in base 16 (hexadecimal) which will be comprised of digits and the letters from A through F. Use the Hex value in the wireless settings for the TiVo.

Here's why you need to do this...
The manufacturer of your access point/router is Apple. The manufacturer of your wireless USB adapter is LinkSys. The algorithm they use to convert a human-readable password into the encryption "key" is different so using the same passphrase won't work because it's going to get turned into a different "key" value for each of them. Using the hex equivalent password eliminates this algorithm issue entirely because you're providing the actual encryption "key" that's being used to protect the network. Note that the same situation can occur whenever different equipment manufacturers are involved with wireless setups -- this is not just an Apple or Mac issue.

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Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 02:16 AM
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nlbford
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
Correct -- you do not use the same password (if you really want to know, there's a detailed reason why below).

You need to get the "Hex equivalent password" by using the Apple Airport Admin Utility as I covered above. This will give a different value which will be in base 16 (hexadecimal) which will be comprised of digits and the letters from A through F. Use the Hex value in the wireless settings for the TiVo.

Here's why you need to do this...
The manufacturer of your access point/router is Apple. The manufacturer of your wireless USB adapter is LinkSys. The algorithm they use to convert a human-readable password into the encryption "key" is different so using the same passphrase won't work because it's going to get turned into a different "key" value for each of them. Using the hex equivalent password eliminates this algorithm issue entirely because you're providing the actual encryption "key" that's being used to protect the network. Note that the same situation can occur whenever different equipment manufacturers are involved with wireless setups -- this is not just an Apple or Mac issue.



Thanks again. This is invaluable stuff which is actually making sense to me!

Can't wait to go try this out when I get home.

One more question . . . I used 128bit as the encryption option because it "sounded right" (for no tangible reason ) . . . did I guess right?

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 02:19 AM
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bedelman
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quote:
Originally posted by nlbford
One more question . . . I used 128bit as the encryption option because it "sounded right" (for no tangible reason ) . . . did I guess right?

128-bit is fine as long as the wireless USB adapter you're using supports it -- most do, but some don't. It does mean that the hex key is going to be 26 characters in length though.

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1 Pioneer DVR-810H
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1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 02:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
128-bit is fine as long as the wireless USB adapter you're using supports it -- most do, but some don't. It does mean that the hex key is going to be 26 characters in length though.


So my clue as to whether the 128bit option is correct is the length of that hex key? How else can I determine whether it is correct?

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 02:42 AM
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bedelman
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Give it a try -- you're just going to need to key in a bunch of digits and letters correctly.

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1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
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webraw is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 10:31 AM
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I have a PowerBook running 10.2.8. I have the very latest versions of iPhoto and iTunes. I have a successful connection to the Internet via my wireless antenna. I do not have any Encryption nor do I have any password (I know I should but hey, can't blame it on that now can we?).

When I pull up TiVo Central I see Musci & Photos. Click on that and I see this list:

Music on TiVo Online
Photos on TiVo online
Manually add a server

Reading the not-too-helpful TiVo help I'm told that TiVo will automatically find my "server" but I tried to add it manually just to be sure. No go.

Also, YES, the TiVo Desktop is running in my preferences and all those settings are correct.

Now, tell me what is wrong? Thanks.

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:58 PM
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Well I'm halfway there thanks to your guys' great help.

My Tivo now properly sees the wirless Network because it sees the Internet Tivo Music and Photos.

It just doesn't see my published folders.

Can you guys figure out what my (hopefully) final roadblock is?

I would greatly appreciate it - and appreciate the help thus far.

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aforkosh is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 01:12 PM
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Do you have Access Control via MAC or Airport address (same thing) enabled on your base station. It's easy to set up initially and forget about. If you have limited system access so that only devices with known addresses can access your system, you will need to add your adapter's MAC address (found on the TiVo Network Settings screen) to the list.

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webraw is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 06:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aforkosh
Do you have Access Control via MAC or Airport address (same thing) enabled on your base station. It's easy to set up initially and forget about. If you have limited system access so that only devices with known addresses can access your system, you will need to add your adapter's MAC address (found on the TiVo Network Settings screen) to the list.



huh? you lost me.

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 09:08 PM
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bedelman
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If your TiVo is able to get to the internet but not see your Music and Photos on your Mac, I suggest you start with this article from TiVo's support site...

My DVR Cannot Find My Music or Photos Server (Macintosh)

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1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 09:42 PM
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bedelman
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quote:
Originally posted by aforkosh
Do you have Access Control via MAC or Airport address (same thing) enabled on your base station. It's easy to set up initially and forget about. If you have limited system access so that only devices with known addresses can access your system, you will need to add your adapter's MAC address (found on the TiVo Network Settings screen) to the list.
quote:
Originally posted by webraw
huh? you lost me.
If your TiVo can get to the Internet but not see the TiVo Desktop client running on a Mac, it's not going to be anything to do anything like this (which is security settings on your Airport Base Station). It's more likely to be a situation on the particular computer on which TiVo Desktop is running.

The TiVo support article (which I mentioned above) is a good starting place.

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1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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futerfas is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 03:13 AM
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Yes, i've found with other mac people that the firewall is usally an issue

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nlbford is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 04:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by aforkosh
Do you have Access Control via MAC or Airport address (same thing) enabled on your base station. It's easy to set up initially and forget about. If you have limited system access so that only devices with known addresses can access your system, you will need to add your adapter's MAC address (found on the TiVo Network Settings screen) to the list.


Where I find that to see if it is set? I have looked at my Airport settings and don't see that. I HAVE done what it says to do in their not-so-helpful trouble shooting guide as far as the sharing folders goes and that still didn't let me get that final step of seeing my published folders.

Thanks

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