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>>> Season Pass Manager slowness ideas <<<

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-06-2002 01:44 PM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

Season Pass Manager slowness ideas

Two ideas w.r.t. Season Pass Manager, one likely very easy, one harder:

CONFIRMATION SCREEN - at first, especially early on, I was doing a lot of manipulating the Season Pass Manager list. Sometimes I'd forget and press ENTER in the wrong place, and have to wait 1/2 hour to proceed. So perhaps a confirmation screen at that point would be nice (only if I've moved anything up/down the list) - "Sorting the Season Passes can take considerable time. Have you made all the changes you want to make?" sort of idea. And perhaps even a "Cancel all changes" menu item there.

BACKGROUND PROCESSING - better yet, leave it as-is, but allow me to get to the rest of the TiVo. Just make some things like the To Do List temporarily unavailable to me. Bonus points if the relevant screens also told me something like "The Season Pass List is being sorted. This item is unavailable. Pass List sorting is 30% done," or even WAY better - "...Pass List sorting will be complete in approximately 18 minutes." However, if at all possible, allow me to get back to the Season Pass Manager screen to make more changes (in case I inadvertently hit OK, or just went into a single Season Pass to change, say, the recording quality). Just re-start (or dump the relevant portion) of the processing already done, and start re-processing it over again when I go to exit the screen.

- Rick

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"Well, I'd *go* with Betty, ... but I'd be thinkin' o' Wilma" (Dave Lister)

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myzzxer is offline Old Post 09-06-2002 04:42 PM
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myzzxer
Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: E. Virginia
Posts: 2

Re: Season Pass Manager slowness ideas

quote:
Originally posted by rkcarter


CONFIRMATION SCREEN - at first, especially early on, I was doing a lot of manipulating the Season Pass Manager list. Sometimes I'd forget and press ENTER in the wrong place, and have to wait 1/2 hour to proceed. ...



Whoa! It takes an half hour? That's a major long time.
A long time with my Tivo's wait period is still less than a minute.

The idea for a confirmation screen sounds good.
I wonder if anyone from Tivo actually reads any of these posts.

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myzzxer is offline Old Post 09-06-2002 04:58 PM
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myzzxer
Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: E. Virginia
Posts: 2

Re: Re: Season Pass Manager slowness ideas

quote:
Originally posted by myzzxer

I wonder if anyone from Tivo actually reads any of these posts.



Oops. I see that Tivo folks do read these posts.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...&threadid=74269

Last edited by myzzxer on 09-06-2002 at 05:05 PM

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-06-2002 06:01 PM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

Re: Re: Season Pass Manager slowness ideas

quote:
Originally posted by myzzxer


Whoa! It takes an half hour? That's a major long time.
A long time with my Tivo's wait period is still less than a minute.

The idea for a confirmation screen sounds good.
I wonder if anyone from Tivo actually reads any of these posts.



It depends on how many Season Passes you have. I should've said "early on, after I hacked my TiVo to 100+ hours...." I threw in Season Passes for every show I ever liked, pretty much -- I'm one who likes to watch a little of a lot of different things.

Once you get upwards of 100 in there, it gets *s*l*o*w.... it's the only place I can think of on the TiVo where it's ever so slow it's a big problem (there is other slowness, but on the order of 30-45 seconds if I add a new Season Pass sometimes, but no big deal).

- Rick

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myzzxer is offline Old Post 09-06-2002 06:50 PM
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myzzxer
Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: E. Virginia
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Quantum theory suggests that a photon beaming towards a peice of paper with 2 slits on it will go through both slits at the same time and that only by observing and measuring it will it decide to go through one or the other instead. Looking at it changes it.

The Tivo - Maybe it's just playing with you.

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innocentfreak is offline Old Post 09-08-2002 08:44 AM
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innocentfreak
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 313

No I am in the same boat but I have an unhacked Tivo with around 125 season passes. I can definitely vouch it takes around if not more than 10 minutes. I still wish when getting a new season pass you could tell it where to place the show instead of dropping it at the bottom. I also wish it would tell you what shows were not being recorded now due to new conflicts.

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-09-2002 03:34 AM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

At this point, I have 410 or so Season Passes (gasp -- I didn't realize that myself). It now takes between 40 and 60 minutes (based on going away & coming back) to update.

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"Well, I'd *go* with Betty, ... but I'd be thinkin' o' Wilma" (Dave Lister)

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-09-2002 03:36 AM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

An addendum -- actually I have more like 350 Season Passes, and about 60 searches (I'm a big fan of some old obscure shows, and some British ones I've heard are good, and once in a while one actually shows up and I can convert the Search to a Season Pass, or else watch it and decide it's not for me). This is an original TiVo 1 -- I wonder if having some searches prioritized in the midst of Season Passes slows it down even more.

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"Well, I'd *go* with Betty, ... but I'd be thinkin' o' Wilma" (Dave Lister)

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Mars Rocket is offline Old Post 09-09-2002 09:07 AM
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Mars Rocket
I want ice cream!

Registered: Mar 2000
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If by "searches" you mean AutoRecord WishLists, then YES - they slow it down quite a bit. I bet if you just took them out you'd cut the processing time in half at least.

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ThreeSoFar is offline Old Post 09-09-2002 09:12 AM
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ThreeSoFar
FourNowActually

Registered: May 2002
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 2708

Adding the extra memory to your SA1 would help. UPgrading to the Series 2 would help even more (more RAM and faster processor).

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I think ThreeSoFar's advice is by far the best...gregpr

Four TiVos now, all with single Samsung drives:
Humax DRT800 w/DVD-R (174hrs)
Two older Series 2's (142hrs and 157hrs),and a newer nightlight
Series 2, a stupid case design IMO (174hrs)
All but the last are lifetimed. TiVite since 2000. There is a Good IR solution.

Got Vonage 4/9/03--need a referral credit?

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-10-2002 01:10 AM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

Yep, I agree with the ways to upgrade my TiVo (though the memory upgrade involves soldering that goes beyond the risk I'd like to take) , but... this is the only place I know of in the software where something that should be backgrounded doesn't seem to be. Even when it "only takes 10 minutes," it would be nice to at least be able to watch live TV and already-recorded shows or do other things that aren't affected by the list.

And taking away the searches -- they're important to me, probably more important than most of the Season Passes (which I'm slowly cutting back down on).

To me, it's just a weakness in the software -- forcing a user to wait for something that there's no reason to tie up the entire TiVo for. TiVo (and the underlying linux O/S) multitasks nicely in many other places, so why not here?

It'd be like me updating a database in Windows, and not being able to read email or surf the web while it's updating (whereas if I were to query that database, I could understand that not working, or else the update being re-started when I got done doing what I was doing).

- Rick

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"Well, I'd *go* with Betty, ... but I'd be thinkin' o' Wilma" (Dave Lister)

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TiVoPony is offline Old Post 09-10-2002 03:21 AM
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TiVoPony
Good TiVo, Good.

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Say, hypothetically, that it was done in the background. Say hypothetically, that moving it to a background task lengthens the amount of time it takes to sort everything out and makes the duration of the task indeterminate.

How do you explain to the average customer that although they changed the priorities earlier today, that tonight it's still recording according to the old schedule. That's an expensive phone call.

We're well aware of the situation. But the solution isn't always as simple as you might think.

Cheers,
Pony

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-10-2002 04:08 AM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
Say, hypothetically, that it was done in the background. Say hypothetically, that moving it to a background task lengthens the amount of time it takes to sort everything out and makes the duration of the task indeterminate.

How do you explain to the average customer that although they changed the priorities earlier today, that tonight it's still recording according to the old schedule. That's an expensive phone call.

We're well aware of the situation. But the solution isn't always as simple as you might think.

Cheers,
Pony



Yeah, that's true (and as a onetime software developer I actually made that point as a reply in another thread long ago - nothing's as easy as it looks). That's why I was suggesting a status message about that. I see that in another case you do give the customer a warning something like "changes to this may not be immediately reflected in the To Do List." You could even give the customer the option, letting them know the above. In fact, that strikes me as not bad -- wordsmithing aside, but conceptually, "leaving this screen will cause the sorting to take much longer. Do you want to leave anyway?"

Does just letting the customer at, say, Watch Live TV and the Now Playing List, and maybe not letting them at anything else cause the priority to drop so low that it would go from "up to 40 minutes" to "up to all night"? I really have no idea how much CPU playback takes away. Is it dynamic, i.e. if backgrounded and just sitting at a menu, would it run significantly faster than if the user is watching a show? Or does the mere fact you background something make it take much longer?

- Rick

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"Well, I'd *go* with Betty, ... but I'd be thinkin' o' Wilma" (Dave Lister)

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GBL is offline Old Post 09-10-2002 11:41 PM
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GBL
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One simple way to speed up the process is to change Live TV to a channel that you do not receive before going into SP manager. This will prevent TiVo from recording and free up the CPU somewhat. IIRC, some forum members did some timing of this and got 10 - 20% speed improvements - in your case, it may take 20-25min instead of 30. (I could not find the relevant thread so I'm relying on my - somewhat hazy - memory)

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1 Sony SVR2000 (upgraded to 75 hrs), 1 Philips HDR612, 2 HDR112s (upgraded to 75 and 140 hrs), 1 SA8000HD (160GB)
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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-10-2002 11:48 PM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Posts: 11

quote:
Originally posted by GBL
One simple way to speed up the process is to change Live TV to a channel that you do not receive before going into SP manager. This will prevent TiVo from recording and free up the CPU somewhat. IIRC, some forum members did some timing of this and got 10 - 20% speed improvements - in your case, it may take 20-25min instead of 30. (I could not find the relevant thread so I'm relying on my - somewhat hazy - memory)


Hey, awesome idea! I assume I can just disconnect the TV from the cable line for the same effect (I guess I could just add a blank channel though).

I'll try to get some timings and let everyone know, I just need a couple of evenings at home with the time to keep looking at the TiVo. This could be interesting!

- Rick

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rkcarter is offline Old Post 09-20-2002 06:33 AM
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rkcarter
Rick- Vorlon wannabe

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Posts: 11

Coupla more thoughts on this -- one is that it would be nice if the whole thing would wait to recompute even if you go into information for a specific show. Sometimes when I'm moving things up and down, it's because I got somewhat tired of a show -- I move it down, and I also want to change it from Record all eps/Save until I delete to Record 5 eps/Save until space needed. Or sometimes I just want to look to see how I have a Season Pass or search set up. But once I've moved a single thing up or down, I have the Big Wait. It would be really great if I could at least do any show manipulation-related things, then save it all at once.

Second, what about a hack code to allow advanced users to choose to Background the rebuild and go watch stuff or whatever? If I'm in a hurry to get tonight's episode of something sorted properly, that's one thing, but often I'm just doing a few adds, deletes, and moves, and there's no big hurry to get it sorted just perfectly.

- Rick

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"Well, I'd *go* with Betty, ... but I'd be thinkin' o' Wilma" (Dave Lister)

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mrtickle is offline Old Post 10-09-2002 02:44 PM
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mrtickle
hatted

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Location: Birmingham, UK
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quote:
Originally posted by ThreeSoFar
Adding the extra memory to your SA1 would help.


No it doesn't!

__________________
160GB UK 2.5.5 TiVo with 32MB ram running TiVoweb via 512MB cachecard with 170 SPs and some custom channel logos. Other hacks: serial PPP in the UK, TiVoWeb, fix the flickering selection bar, kill the red dot in software and merge recordings.

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vman41 is offline Old Post 10-09-2002 06:26 PM
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vman41
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Could you add a progress bar? Long waits are more tolerable when you're given some sense that you are 'getting there'.

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ThreeSoFar is offline Old Post 10-09-2002 07:03 PM
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ThreeSoFar
FourNowActually

Registered: May 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle


No it doesn't!



Why not? Less disk swapping for memory would seem to speed it up, all else being equal.

__________________
I think ThreeSoFar's advice is by far the best...gregpr

Four TiVos now, all with single Samsung drives:
Humax DRT800 w/DVD-R (174hrs)
Two older Series 2's (142hrs and 157hrs),and a newer nightlight
Series 2, a stupid case design IMO (174hrs)
All but the last are lifetimed. TiVite since 2000. There is a Good IR solution.

Got Vonage 4/9/03--need a referral credit?

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jevo is offline Old Post 11-01-2002 12:02 AM
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jevo
New Member

Registered: Dec 2001
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OK, here is a clearer idea for dealing with the season pass slowness.

Allow us to rearrange the season passes without forcing the rebuild of the todo list every time we shift around a show. That is, give us some alternate key, like the enter key, that would avoid the rebuild of the list for the moment.

The idea is that you could shift around the list to the extent desired, and THEN let it do the slow rebuild.

The nice part of this is that the default would still work the same, so new users would not be confused.

I admit, that my 60 passes and dozen or so wishlists are only taking a couple minutes to process, but it would be nice to allow more than one incremental change for each two minute penalty!

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