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>>> I'm tired of waiting for AAC support. <<<

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-11-2004 10:22 PM
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Austin Bike
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Before this becomes a religious argument, let me state my beliefs:

1. Apple has the best online music store.
2. Apple has the best digital music strategy
3. The phenomonon of digital music did not start last year when apple announced their store
4. The discussion of TiVo is not limited to DRM music, but should reflect the ENTIRE digital music universe, regardless of the format.
5. 70% of all legally downloaded music is from Apple, and thus AAC.
6. AAC is a better format than MP3 (I have no way to defend this but it's compeltely immaterial to my position, so I'll grant you that point).
7. MP3 has been the provice of pirates. But remember that regardless of how the music got there, people want to play it.


The problem is that those 30M iTunes songs represent such a tiny portion of the overall music universe that it is still a rounding error.

HMO is not designed to be a conduit for DRM-only content. If it was, then Apple would definitely be the leader and your argument would hold.

However, there are more than just DRM songs out there. I have 11,000 legal songs in my collection, about 200 of them are DRM and the remainder of my collection (10,800) are ripped from my own legally purchased CDs.

THAT is the market that TiVo is after.

The RIAA claims that the average user has ~1000 songs on their hard drive.

If 50M PCs were sold last year, and 20% of the PCs were sold to consumers 9my guess, not analyst's estimate), then you have ~10M consumer PCs from the last year alone.

If each consumer PC had on average 1000 songs (legal or otherwise), then there are approximately 10B music files out there. That is the total music universe.

If there are 30M AAC DRM files in a universe of 10B total music files, then DRM-encoded (captive) AAC files represent a fraction of one percent of the total addressable music universe.

Tivo is more interested in the total universe and, quite frankly, would probably prefer to stay out of the DRM swirl.

Because there are plenty of legal MP3's out there and it's the lowest common denominator, they support them.

You can also get WMA support through a plug-in. TiVo isn't offering that service but someone else found a niche and wrote a program. That should happen for AAC - but only when someone finds the market demand large enough.

Again, if you take the world of paid downloads then, yes, AAC is the king (for now). But if you look at the total universe of digital music, then AAC is just a rounding error for now. And support is unlikely to change from TiVo despite how much press/popularity Apple gets because, at the end of the day, 30M files is nothing compared to the total billions of files out there.

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jwedding is offline Old Post 01-11-2004 10:42 PM
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jwedding
Support AAC Now!

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 76

Half the point of being in the Tivolution is to do it better, not just do what the tools in marketing/sales tell you. By your analysis of statistics and markets, Tivo should just quit, I mean, really, who wants this whole timeshifting thing anyway?

AAC support is a valid request, made my many of the long running Tivo supporters (way longer than me, obviously.)

If you don't want to listen to us whine about it, just ignore the thread.

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-12-2004 01:49 AM
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Austin Bike
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I agree completely that you should continue to ask for the support - TiVo will never add it if you don't. I just disagree fundamentally that AAC proliferance is anywhere near as large as some people make it out to be.

I'd keep pushing if I were you, the louder your voice is the more likely you are to get what you want. Right now AAC is a fraction of a percent so it's probably not on their radar screen.

I'd be willing to bet that it's more a political issue than a technical issue. If someone wrote a plug-in for WMA, surely someone can write one for AAC. I'd lobby Apple harder than TiVo, Apple has more at stake.

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TiVoJay is offline Old Post 01-12-2004 10:05 AM
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TiVoJay
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Austin, all your talk about the number of MP3 files vs. AAC files out there is irrelevant. HMO already supports MP3 -- they're covered. What we're talking about is where does HMO go next. The XM radio announcement is the only real interesting HMO partnership Tivo just announced, the others are trivial. But I'm sure if you look at the number of people out there with an XM receiver for their PC, it's less than the number of iTunes users. So, if you want to talk purely numbers, which is a bigger market?

Also you seem to think that DRM is just a foolish fad. It's here to stay and it's only going to get more pervasive.

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-13-2004 09:01 AM
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Austin Bike
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I agree with both points. My point is that TiVo has a music solution already (MP3) so any incremental doesn't buy them that much. Based on market size, WMA might be a better choice, but I'd have to check on potential market size first.

Anyway, yes, XM is not large, I'd venture to say smaller than AAC. However, I'd also bet that XM did much/most of the work.

However, it is strategic because that is a service that Time Warner, for instance, requires you to pay extra for (olnly available through digital cable). We only had digital because we liked the music. HMO allowed to cancel TW digital, saving me ~$30-40 per month. Although I really liked the music, I might consider extending my Tivo based on the $10/month.

Think of it in terms of extending the brand and adding functionality.

DRM is not a foolish fad, it is, as you stated, here to stay. However, it will probably, some time in the future, be rendered useless. Most schemes will be cracked (which I personally disagree with).

People have a right to make money off of their work, which is why DRM should work, but the implementation leaves much to be desired.

At $.25 per song I would spend 5-6X what I do at $1 per song. At $.25 a song, people don't bother to steal as much. Who wouldn't pay a quarter to ensure they had the full download with no monkey business.

One of the biggest reasons that pricing has to be so high is the high cost of DRM. It's a catch-22.

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kupe is offline Old Post 01-13-2004 10:23 PM
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kupe
Viva 'la Tivolution!

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Check this out. No less than Hewlett Packard- the second largest PC maker in the world- announced they will NOT be supporting WMA in their HP-branded iPod. Rather, the are going with the "most popular" format used by the iTunes Music Store. Hmmmm- that wouldn't be AAC now, would it Tivo??????

See http://www.macminute.com/2004/01/13/hpwma

kupe

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tefler is offline Old Post 01-13-2004 11:07 PM
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tefler
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quote:
Originally posted by kupe
Check this out. No less than Hewlett Packard- the second largest PC maker in the world- announced they will NOT be supporting WMA in their HP-branded iPod. Rather, the are going with the "most popular" format used by the iTunes Music Store. Hmmmm- that wouldn't be AAC now, would it Tivo??????

See http://www.macminute.com/2004/01/13/hpwma

kupe



I think you may have edited the person's comments a little too much there. They specifically said they were going with the most popular *service* (iTunes Music Store). The fact that IMS uses AAC format does not translate into AAC being the most popular encoding format.

I think you blended the person's next sentence commenting on not wanting to use another format at this time as it would cause confusion for the customers. My guess (and I don't want to put any words in the person's mouth) is that they meant that trying to offer multiple formats for download would be confusing to the end user who wouldn't know which one to pick. The end consumer would just want to download something and have it work.

The rest of the real article (on wired's site) does go in more depth talking about customers with music already encoded in WMA format wanting to put it on their iPod. That is a good argument as to why they should support WMA.

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bedelman is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 02:26 AM
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bedelman
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Posts: 2638

There are some comments being made regarding AAC support (or lack thereof) in this thread over in the TiVo Coffee House forum. The comments are interspersed with other CES announcement information. Some of you may want to jump in.

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>>> I'm tired of waiting for AAC support. <<<

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