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>>> Multiple "Tonoght Show" recordings <<<

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wbertram is offline Old Post 06-15-2002 04:13 AM
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wbertram
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Multiple "Tonight Show" recordings

Why can't TiVo make the "Season Pass" manager smart enough to realize that, for example, NBC broadcasts the Tonight Show at 11:35PM, and repeats it at 2:05PM. And, that you only need to record one of these broadcasts.

Likewise, the "Beltway Boys" is broadcast 4 times over the weekend on Fox News. And the Season Pass wants to record all four!

This makes the Season Pass feature next to useless.

Is there a solution? I thought they would fix this in release 2.0, then in release 3.0. But no luck.

Last edited by wbertram on 06-15-2002 at 06:29 AM

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Ciannait is offline Old Post 06-15-2002 04:23 AM
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Ciannait
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I thought this had to do with guide data it receives from whatsit - Tribune.

If Tribune just says, "Tonight Show is on, and no we won't tell you who's on or if it's a rerun", then it's going to record all showings, right?

You could probably set up manual recordings for it.

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nichols_eric is offline Old Post 06-15-2002 04:25 AM
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I actually called TiVo about this awhile ago... it is the guide data. Nothing we can do about it except set up a manual recording or at least set Keep At Most = 2. It's annoying, I know.

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TheSimpsons is offline Old Post 06-15-2002 09:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nichols_eric
I actually called TiVo about this awhile ago... it is the guide data. Nothing we can do about it except set up a manual recording or at least set Keep At Most = 2. It's annoying, I know.


Yep, its the guide data. Shows like the "Tonight Show" which repeat later, usually don't have any data linked with it. That later showing never has any info about the guests, etc., it just gives a generic description.

However, occasionally, not often-but once in a while. Tribune will get guide data for those recordings and when they do it says: (Stereo, CC, R). The "R" means it is a rerun. TiVo recognizes that "R" and then will skip over it if you have a season pass set for "Record first showing only".

I would recommend a manual season pass too.

-The Simpsons

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-15-2002 11:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheSimpsons

. . . TiVo recognizes that "R" and then will skip over it if you have a season pass set for "Record first showing only".



Could you give me the source of this information?

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TheSimpsons is offline Old Post 06-15-2002 11:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Phillip
Could you give me the source of this information?


It is in your TiVo Viewers Guide booklet that came with the unit.

-The Simpsons

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-16-2002 01:56 AM
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Phillip
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quote:
Originally posted by TheSimpsons

It is in your TiVo Viewers Guide booklet that came with the unit.


I take it by your response that you assummed I hadn't read the TiVo Viewers Guide, so I browsed through it again and failed to find the exact quote, "TiVo recognizes that 'R' and then will skip over it." Could you be a bit more specific on where this is located, please?

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TheSimpsons is offline Old Post 06-16-2002 02:48 AM
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TheSimpsons
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quote:
Originally posted by Phillip

I take it by your response that you assummed I hadn't read the TiVo Viewers Guide, so I browsed through it again and failed to find the exact quote, "TiVo recognizes that 'R' and then will skip over it." Could you be a bit more specific on where this is located, please?



Here's a lot of info about "First Run" stuff from Gary Sargent, a TiVo Community Forum moderator... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...light=first+run

I think the main points which will be of interest to you are...

quote:
Originally posted by GarySargent
2) If TiVo is recording repeats that it already recorded only a few days ago, this is due to one of two problems: a) Incorrect guide data, or b) Generic guide data where each episode has the same synopsis so TiVo can't tell if a programme is a repeat. Report all guide data errors in this thread.


See, he explains that the generic data which has no description and info (which includeds the "R"), will not be skipped over as a repeat as your TiVo has no way of identifying it. So if the guide data is just like "Tonight Show with Jay Leno: Jay interviews celebrities with comedic skits" your TiVo will not know whether or not this is a repeat or new. However, if your TiVo does have good data (as I mentioned earlier is not often with the later showings), it will either see the Original Air Date, the "28 day rule", or any other data (such as the "R"), which will let it know it is not a new episode.

If you still want more info, do a search for "First run" and you should find it.

-The Simpsons

Last edited by TheSimpsons on 06-16-2002 at 03:13 AM

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-16-2002 03:19 AM
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Phillip
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quote:
Originally posted by TheSimpsons

It does not say that in the Viewers Guide. . .



Oh, OK, I didn't think it was in there...

I believe TiVo does not rely on the "R" to decide whether or not a program is a re-run, hence my questioning where it was in the manual. I have seen this fail on many occasions, where a program was recorded, even though the Tribune information indicated a re-run. I can point you to a thread that you probably haven't read , agreeing with my conclusion:

quote:

This has been posted about several times before -- other folks have trouble with other shows, with me it's the Tonight Show Season Pass.

I too get a re-run at 2ish out here on the West Coast.

The trouble is not with your Tivo -- the trouble is with the very limited guide data provided to TiVo by Tribune. Pay no attention to the little (R) that shows you that the broadcast is a repeat -- that is not what TiVo is looking at.

Go to your upcoming episodes of the Tonight Show and pick one to look at. When you are at the screen which says "record as planned / cancel only this episode / cancel/edit the Season Pass" then go to the second screen by pressing the "enter/jump" button on your remote (I'm assuming you've got a button similar to that on my standalone Sony).

You should get a screen with more information that includes the original air date. The repeats all have a very limited entry with a token original air date of 1/1/2000.

Since TiVo doesn't know for sure which episode this is, and can't tell if it is new or old, it records it anyway.

At the moment, all we can do is go through and kill out the early-morning recordings. It's a drag, but that's the way it is.

If Tribune bothered to provide a listing for what shows those are, then TiVo would know you had watched them within the last 28 days and wouldn't record them for you.

Jan
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Note, especially the third paragraph. The actual link being: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...run+season+pass

You may want to take a look at this thread from May of 2002.

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TheSimpsons is offline Old Post 06-16-2002 03:23 AM
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Arrow

I edited my reply once I found some relevant info of some interest. Check there, maybe it can answer any questions concerns you still have.

-The Simpsons

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-16-2002 04:21 AM
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I read through every thread you referenced (all 23 pages!) and still failed to find anything that confirmed that TiVo uses the "R" in the program information to decide whether or not a program is recorded. That's simply all I was asking about, no concern here, just a question where you had read that information I hadn't read before. If you run across anything that confirms this, please let me know.

Did you happen to read the thread I referenced?

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DJRobX is offline Old Post 06-17-2002 01:11 AM
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What I'd really, really like to see is a SP option for "Record this show once per [day/week] only when epsiode information is not present". Yes, it's the fault of the guide data, but at some point we have to acknowledge that there's a TON of shows, especially cable shows, that have have lacking guide data.

For example, I like gameshows. Game Show network repeats the same show 4 times a day. I have to make a manual recording in order to sanely get what I want, which is much less convenient because they frequently change their schedule around. Keep At Most won't work because it'll just keep 3 copies of the same show rather than 3 different shows.

Also, for reasons like the incident shown above, a "Day" needs to start and stop at 4am or something later than 12:00, because the "repeat airings" are often in the early morning.

I say "when epsiode information is not present", because there are some cases like South Park, where the information is sometimes there and sometimes isn't. If the episode info IS there I'd prefer it to revert to the old rules since it can deal with it more intelligently.

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steuert is offline Old Post 06-17-2002 03:06 AM
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Can't help but think this thread is creating a tempest in a teapot. I set up a manual SP for "Tonight" M-F from 10:35-11:35pm, which got rid of the 2:05am re-runs. Every few weeks, the network also broadcasts a week of re-runs at 10:35, which you will know after watching Monday's show. You can then temporarily delete the SP or just delete each show for a week, which takes a couple of button pushes on your remote. (Incidentally, I believe the 2:05 broadcasts are not re-runs of the preceding night's show, but go back several days.)

Same thing works for "The Beltway Boys." Tribune Media Services, which TiVo relies upon for its guide data, has routinely carried incomplete or erroneous data for years, which, as you might expect, they blame on their sources at the broadcasters. IMHO this is unlikely to improve much in the foreseeable future.

Still, in my experience, TiVo's anti-rerun features work pretty well most of the time. When they don't, a few minutes spent setting up a manual SP will usually solve the problem.

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-17-2002 09:03 AM
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steuert, I can appreciate what you are saying and would agree, if it were just the Tonight Show, but the problem of the "R" show's up quite often. I'm not sure what the triggering mechanism is in the guide data that makes the TiVo commit to recording or not (more importantly, not!) I have seen many occasions where the "R" was ignored and a recording was made. I would think that "First Run Only" would be pretty exclusive, but apparently not!

Agreeing here also with DJRobX, I would like to see a little more robust SP options, possibly including a NOT function.

Oh, and one more thing, steuert mentioned the Tonight Show 2:05 broadcast, I don't record or watch it, but, believe the early morning showings are from the previous week.

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wbertram is offline Old Post 06-19-2002 03:49 AM
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Not quite a "tempest in a teapot". Since you are recording the Tonight Show at 10:30 PM, you are not on the East coast. Here on the East coast the Tonight Show is often delayed because NBC is showing sporting events or specials. A Manual SP does not correct for these changes in the air time of the Tonight Show. That ability to make changes in recording time is one of the supposed advantages/features of TiVo, and one of the supposed advantages of using SPs. Unfortunately, the SP concept doesn't work for many shows!!

Bummer

quote:
Originally posted by steuert
Can't help but think this thread is creating a tempest in a teapot. I set up a manual SP for "Tonight" M-F from 10:35-11:35pm, which got rid of the 2:05am re-runs. snip

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murgatroyd is offline Old Post 06-19-2002 12:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Phillip
steuert, I can appreciate what you are saying and would agree, if it were just the Tonight Show, but the problem of the "R" show's up quite often. I'm not sure what the triggering mechanism is in the guide data that makes the TiVo commit to recording or not (more importantly, not!) I have seen many occasions where the "R" was ignored and a recording was made. I would think that "First Run Only" would be pretty exclusive, but apparently not!


Did you read the long post of mine which you quoted above?

My understanding is that TiVo is looking at the Original Air Date which is on the 2nd screen of program information (reached via the 'enter' key on my Sony; your TiVo may vary).

Try searching the forum for earlier discussions of what criteria are used to classify a show as "first run".

Edited to add:

For instance, this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...onight+AND+Show

Jan

Last edited by murgatroyd on 06-19-2002 at 12:41 PM

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-20-2002 09:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by murgatroyd


Did you read the long post of mine which you quoted above?



I have no idea who you are, or why you're accusing me of plagiarizing your posts I honestly don't see anything in this thread with your name on it, and truthfully, I've never seen your name before. So, in answer to your question, no, I've never read your 'long post' heretofore

The articles you referenced contain words like "imply" and "I think". Your understanding may be that it looks at the Original Air Date, but I'm merely saying that I'm not sure any of us know for sure what the algorithm is. I'm not sure that ,even on the 'second' display screen, we're seeing all the Tribune information.

I'm not badmouthing the TiVo in this respect, simply that the process used to decide whether or not to record, and I might add, the logic that it uses to decide if it should record a suggestion, fascinates me.

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TheSimpsons is offline Old Post 06-20-2002 09:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Phillip


I have no idea who you are, or why you're accusing me of plagiarizing your posts I honestly don't see anything in this thread with your name on it, and truthfully, I've never seen your name before. So, in answer to your question, no, I've never read your 'long post' heretofore



That was her stuff you quoted earlier. In your post that begins with:

"Oh, OK, I didn't think it was in there..."

You will notice the bottom of the quote has a signature that says something like "all wives love things". You can see murgatroyd has that signature too. That was her quote...

-The Simpsons

Last edited by TheSimpsons on 06-20-2002 at 09:43 AM

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Phillip is offline Old Post 06-20-2002 10:01 AM
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Ah, I see it now! I was looking at the left column of the thread and didn't see her name before In which case now I must change my answer to "yes!", I did read your long post. The rest of my post stands though.

Thank you 'The Simpsons' for pointing this out. I must go wash my face

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berryb is offline Old Post 06-24-2002 03:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by steuert
Can't help but think this thread is creating a tempest in a teapot. I set up a manual SP for "Tonight" M-F from 10:35-11:35pm, which got rid of the 2:05am re-runs. Every few weeks, the network also broadcasts a week of re-runs at 10:35, which you will know after watching Monday's show. You can then temporarily delete the SP or just delete each show for a week, which takes a couple of button pushes on your remote.


steuert - Bless you! Bless you! Bless you!

I never ran across the Manual Time/Channel record before.

This Jay Leno thing here on the West Coast has bugged me ever since 'Season Passes.' I also called TiVo about it with no help. If they had mentioned the Manual SP, it would've solved my problem. I've been reviewing my To Do list every so often, removing the 2:05 AM Jay's and also removing his occasional 11:35 Reruns, already, so that's no big deal.

Another bug for me has been an SP for our 11:00 PM "Channel 4 News" - They also broadcast "Channel 4 News" at 4 PM, 5 PM and 6 PM and an SP catches all 4 of them. Now I have Manual SP's for both the 11 PM Channel 4 News (everyday) and the Tonight Show, 11:35-12:35 PM (M-F,) thanks to you!

I love it!

Bert Berry

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