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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 08:32 AM
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Carey
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quote:
Originally posted by Hunter Green
We're not supposed to feed the trolls, folks.


Hunter,

I have taken the liberty of sending this to the moderator as a complaint. I never insulted you or anyone else and I most certainly don't deserved to be judged and labeled by you.

I have legitimate issues with the Tivo and I came here looking for assistance, not a debate. This is what I was talking about in an earlier post. You own a Tivo and you seem to think that anyone who doesn't like it, must be inferior. It's almost a cult-like mentality.

I have no complaints about you. This is about Tivo. If you would like to address any of the dozen or so issues I have posted with regards to the short comings of Tivo, and the best way to resolve them, I'd love to hear them.

But please refrain from personal negative and derogatory comments towards me in the future.

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 08:55 AM
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BrettStah
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Carey, if you had indeed read these forums as much as you said, how did you miss the Suggestions forum, where just about every single one of your complaints has been mentioned previously?

It's simple... use it until right before your 30 day return period arrives. Decide if you can live with it even with it's limitations. The vast majority of Tivo owners have found that a Tivo surpasses everything else out there, including VCRs. You may not agree, but thankfully for you no one is going to force you to remain a Tivo owner.

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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 09:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
Carey, if you had indeed read these forums as much as you said, how did you miss the Suggestions forum, where just about every single one of your complaints has been mentioned previously?

It's simple... use it until right before your 30 day return period arrives. Decide if you can live with it even with it's limitations. The vast majority of Tivo owners have found that a Tivo surpasses everything else out there, including VCRs. You may not agree, but thankfully for you no one is going to force you to remain a Tivo owner.



Yeah, I am going to keep it a bit longer. Two days is not long enough to decide and I still have a lot more to learn about it. I was under the impression this was going to be a complete solution. Tivo has a lot of great features, don't get me wrong. I can't count the number of times I forgot to turn off the VCR and, as a result, it didn't record anything. One of my VCRs ejects the tape when the tape is full, but the other one doesn't. Once again, I missed a lot of scheduled recordings because I didn't bother to check the status of the tape. Also, searching through the tapes to find the program I want to watch was always a pain. Tivo solves those three things. I was really hoping it would be a complete solution, especailly given how many years it has been available now. Clearly, they have a ways to go and I'm a little frustrated because with just a few little tweaks, it would be perfect for my needs.

Heck, even to just be able to turn off auto-recording of live TV would help me breathe a little easier.

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 09:09 AM
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BrettStah
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And the "troll-ish" comment stemmed from your inflammatory language you've used... "cult", "brain-washed" come to mind. Note that there are over 13,000 posts just in the Suggestions forum. Tivo owners, while mostly very happy, still see ways that their Tivos could be even better. And Tivo has addressed many of them since they were first released. Adjustable priorities, being able to configure the number of each show to keep, being able to make a recording out of the live tv buffer, being able to record from multiple channels (via wishlists), 30 second skip, sorting items in Now Playing, being able to skip re-runs, connecting via broadband, etc. All of these features were not originally available in the Tivo software.

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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 09:15 AM
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I did not specifically call anyone here brain-washed or a cult member. I was pointing out that, in my opinion, the attitude of most of the Tivo owners who were responding appeared very similar to the attitudes of cult members. That someone would think my suggestions were not valid because I was not using Tivo the way Tivo wants me to use Tivo, suggests an almost brain-washed mentality.

It's not an insult, it's an observation, as it is not directed towards any one person. Calling my reaction to that 'trollish', is name calling.

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 09:19 AM
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BrettStah
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And as I've pointed out numerous times now, and you've studiously avoided/ignored, there is an entire forum here specifically for suggestions, and we are posting in it right now. And all of your ideas have already been suggested. So your "cult" and "brain-wash" ideas don't seem very apt, in my opinion. Maybe you can't be happy with a non-perfect product, but most people can be. I wish my car had a few features it lacks, but I'm still happy with it.

And I stand by my description of some of your posts... they are "trollish". I didn't call you a troll though. If I had done that, I would have said, "Carey, you're a troll."

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feldon23 is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 09:31 AM
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feldon23
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quote:
I know what shows I want to watch....I am not sure what their titles are, what time or day or channel they are on. That's why the guide is there.

No, that's what the TiVo service is for!!! Why did you buy a TiVo man? You don't sound like the ideal candidate for TiVo. Stop trying to outsmart the box and just let TiVo do its job.

quote:
This is the negative padding that is often requested. If the shows are on the same channel, just don't select padding. You will watch the start on Everybody Loves Raymond's recording. While you are at it, complain loud to the networks for not having sensible on-time schedules.

This has nothing to do with the networks. Why are Tivo owners so obessive about the perfection of Tivo? It's almost like Tivo owners sign up to join the Cult Of Tivo. Like many Apple computer owners, or Saturn car owners, there appears to be a blind religious-like loyalty to a product that is far from perfect.


Now you are just trying to bitch. The solution to this problem is to get the Networks to stop scheduling shows incorrectly and to play the shows at the correct time. If this fails, then the solution is "soft padding" where you can schedule overlapping shows and it will record what it can of both shows.

quote:
Tivo should be intelligent enough to tell me "Hey, dummy, you can't tell me to record Still Standing 2 minutes early when you already told me to record Everybody Loves Raymond which is on the SAME CHANNEL just before Still Standing." Why doesn't Tivo just shade-out the start-early option if it's going to overlap something? And while I can't swear by it yet, it seems Tivo has no idea what channel it is currently on. I could be incorrect, but I think if I tell Tivo to record two shows on the same channel with no gap of time in between, Tivo still changes the channel. Why is Tivo so un-intelligent?

Your definition of "intelligence", ala blocking the user from setting an early or late pad on a show based on the scheduling of another show would be INCREDIBLY annoying to me and many others.


quote:
This is my complaint. My expectations were set up by people like you telling me how great this thing is. All of you fail to mention how much the thing falls short. You have to conform to it. It should conform to you. So I am annoyed that so many people are 'sheep' and can't think for themselves and are happy to have Tivo do the thinking for you. I have no interest in wishlists, I have no interest in auto-rewinding and 8-second playback.

Please return your TiVo, since it's obviously not the product for you. I love my TiVos because they are intuitive. They do almost exactly what I would do if I designed them. I think it is simple yet ingenious that when you are fast forwarding, it jumps back a few seconds in anticipation of where you probably first wanted to hit PLAY. I guess you are psychic and can hit PLAY right when your show is coming back?

To me, the true power of a TiVo is wishlists. You are focused on what shows are on in the next hour. I could care less. I refuse to watch commercials. I refuse to watch movies that started 20 minutes ago. I refuse to watch part of a show. When I look at the guide, I look at the next 2 weeks on the guide, or with the Wishlists, I put in the names of movies and actors that I want the TiVo to record in the event they come on. I have about 2 dozen TV shows entered into the TiVo that I know it will record if they come on. Now THAT is peace-of-mind.

The things you consider weaknesses, the rest of us consider strengths. Ask anyone, I am no sheep. I am not a conformist. I have griped at TiVo quite a bit on these forums about things they could add/change and some of their policies. But I still love TiVo and it works nearly the way I would have designed it.

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Last edited by feldon23 on 11-26-2002 at 09:49 AM

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phone1 is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 11:22 AM
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Carey - you have omitted to mention when and why you purchased a TiVo and which one. Since it falls so short of your expectations, why haven't you returned it and moved on to something else?

Positive suggestions about how to improve the product are appreciated and solicited in this forum, but why do you feel the need to come here and chastise TiVo users? Your tone is negative and condescending - I agree with Hunter and therefore banish you back to your bridge.

Edit: OK, now I read your other thread and some of my questions are answered. The good news is that you are well with the product return window. Please, please, I beg of you, return your TiVo NOW!

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Last edited by phone1 on 11-26-2002 at 11:30 AM

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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 11:38 AM
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Carey
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quote:
Originally posted by phone1
Carey - you have omitted to mention when and why you purchased a TiVo and which one. Since it falls so short of your expectations, why haven't you returned it and moved on to something else?

Positive suggestions about how to improve the product are appreciated and solicited in this forum, but why do you feel the need to come here and chastise TiVo users? Your tone is negative and condescending - I agree with Hunter and therefore banish you back to your bridge.

Edit: OK, now I read your other thread and some of my questions are answered. The good news is that you are well with the product return window. Please, please, I beg of you, return your TiVo NOW!



You aren't the least bit helpful and are quite rude. I find your attitude uncalled for and your bossy superior attitude quite disturbing.

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phone1 is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 12:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Carey
You aren't the least bit helpful and are quite rude. I find your attitude uncalled for and your bossy superior attitude quite disturbing.
Unhelpful? Rude? Bossy? Superior attitude? Have you been reading your own posts and mistaking them for mine?

__________________
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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 12:11 PM
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Carey
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Originally posted by feldon23
No, that's what the TiVo service is for!!! Why did you buy a TiVo man? You don't sound like the ideal candidate for TiVo. Stop trying to outsmart the box and just let TiVo do its job.

I had no idea if a Tivo would be right for me. When they first came out, I avoided them knowing there would be issues that need to be resolved. Now that series2 are available, I figured I'd see what all this Tivo hype was about and not have to deal with the problems inherent in a new product.

Now you are just trying to bitch. The solution to this problem is to get the Networks to stop scheduling shows incorrectly and to play the shows at the correct time. If this fails, then the solution is "soft padding" where you can schedule overlapping shows and it will record what it can of both shows.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand why Tivo simply won't allow me to schedule any soft padding if it will conflict. It should just grey the option out and make me have to reduce the soft padding on the previous program so I can make a decision as to which show is most important. In this case, the shows were on back to back on the same channel and Tivo could have self-corrected what I was trying to do. In other words, it would not be necessary to soft pad a show that comes on the same channel immediatly after the show you have already set to record. Tivo programming doesn't check for this very simple thing and, in my opinion, it's one of the major things it should do. I corrected it once I noticed the show was not in my To Do list, but had I not memorized what I record on Mondays, I would have been upset after the fact.

Your definition of "intelligence", ala blocking the user from setting an early or late pad on a show based on the scheduling of another show would be INCREDIBLY annoying to me and many others.

Right, which is why it should be an OPTION. I am not suggesting my way to record is the only way. With the cable service I have and the TV that I watch, Tivo would be much more useful to me if I could customize it to my personal preferences, thereby not forcing any one way on anyone. Then no one gets annoyed since you can change it to behave to your individual desires.

Please return your TiVo, since it's obviously not the product for you.

Now that's rude. Don't tell me what to do. I didn't come here looking to be dictated to. I was looking for solutions to the problems I was having and you people are taking it as if I insulted a member of your family. Your defense of the product is not what I asked for. Excuses aren't what I asked for. I asked for assistance with these issues from the very people who claim to love it and explain how great it is. Who better to ask then those who enjoy it and have experience with it?

I love my TiVos because they are intuitive. They do almost exactly what I would do if I designed them. I think it is simple yet ingenious that when you are fast forwarding, it jumps back a few seconds in anticipation of where you probably first wanted to hit PLAY. I guess you are psychic and can hit PLAY right when your show is coming back?

It's all timing. It has nothing to do with being psychic. I can generally tell when a commercial is about to begin and when the commercials are about to end. I can generally nail it with the fast forward button on the VCR every time. It's not a big deal. The Tivo is trying to untrain me and make me pass the show up, so it can rewind it for me. Once again, a simple ENABLED/DISABLED option would resolve this so everyone can have which option they desire without affecting anyone else's choices or usage and operation of the Tivo unit.

To me, the true power of a TiVo is wishlists.

Once again, I have no wishlists. I already know what I want to watch. It seems Tivo is great if you have no idea what to watch, but for me, I record shows I am interested in and barely have time to watch them. I don't have any more free time to watch additional suggestions from Tivo or Wishlists that recorded hours of TV for me to get caught up on.

You are focused on what shows are on in the next hour. I could care less. I refuse to watch commercials.

I generally fast forward through the commercials either just before they start or just after they start, but sometimes I see one zipping by that I want to check out. For example, the preview for the new James Bond movie, or the funny Budweiser commercials. Heck, I tape the SuperBowl and fast forward through to GET to the commercials. I have no interest in the football game. Although, that is the only show I do that with and that's just once a year.

I refuse to watch movies that started 20 minutes ago. I refuse to watch part of a show. When I look at the guide, I look at the next 2 weeks on the guide, or with the Wishlists, I put in the names of movies and actors that I want the TiVo to record in the event they come on. I have about 2 dozen TV shows entered into the TiVo that I know it will record if they come on. Now THAT is peace-of-mind.

For me, I don't want to miss an episode of any series I watch. Survivor is the most important show to me and I usually am home to watch it live. I also record it just in case the phone rings. But I need to see it before people start talking about it or it ruins the show to know who will be voted off or what events took place.

I'm not a fan of any particular actor. Most actors do some great stuff and some terrible stuff as well. I know what I want to watch and I have barely enough time in my schedule to break free to even watch that. The last thing I need is MORE stuff to watch. I might think Ted Danson is great in Cheers, but I have no interest watching him in anything else. Will Smith did a great job in Enemy of the State, but I have no desire to watch The Fresh Prince or Wild, Wild West. If I did, I'd set the Tivo myself.

The things you consider weaknesses, the rest of us consider strengths. Ask anyone, I am no sheep. I am not a conformist. I have griped at TiVo quite a bit on these forums about things they could add/change and some of their policies. But I still love TiVo and it works nearly the way I would have designed it.

I would have designed it to make it's 'features' more flexible for the user. And the guide is not in a GRID, which I also think is counter-intuitive. Once again, I would have made the unit customizeable with regards to all the features. I think it could be a very powerful recording tool if Tivo would just allow the OPTION of letting the user control and optimize some of the 'features'. That's really my main complaint. It just shocks me how many people think it's beyond reproach when clearly there is lack of user-controlled guidance and functionality options.

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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 12:17 PM
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Carey
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quote:
Originally posted by phone1
Unhelpful? Rude? Bossy? Superior attitude? Have you been reading your own posts and mistaking them for mine?


Please show me where I called you a name or told you what to do. I came here to discuss Tivo. If you want to change the topic, it would be polite to start another thread.

Last edited by Carey on 11-26-2002 at 12:21 PM

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Chellie is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 12:33 PM
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Chellie
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I can't TAKE IT anymore!!

That's it. I'm done. I am completely over it.

Here's what separates me from the majority of you people.

First and foremost. Read slowly now, children, so there's no confusion.

I have a LIFE! And Heaven forbid I should have a problem with my TiVo, and the world might stop spinning and I should be shot out into space.

Oh, no, wait. There ARE no problems with TiVo! TiVo is perfect! If you don't like TiVo, then you obviously should take it back to the store where you purchased it, because you aren't GOOD ENOUGH to own one! You're not a high enough calibre person to even have this fantastical piece of God-like equipment in your house!

Do you all realize that you have spent the better part of what looks like two days debating the merits of a piece of electronic equipment that is supposed to make your life easier, better, and perhaps more fun?

Here's a word of advice for ALL of you - read a book! No, wait, let me take that a step farther. Leave your home! Spend some time in the sun and soak up some real Vitamin D. Find a woman and go on a date. Get lucky, if you've got it in you! I'm sure someone's recorded a show about how it's done. Engage in some conversation about something besides how great it is to have a over-rated VCR picking and choosing your television for you. Go to school! Learn something! Travel a little, and get out of your house, instead of watching prime time TV replayed "at your convenience" so you can get a feeling of what New York must be like, or Los Angeles. And everyone knows, The West Wing is an accurate portrayal of the White House. Current events spoon fed in prime time with name brand actors! Woo hoo!

And I would recommend WATCHING some live tv, for those of you who say that you are so enamored of your TiVo units that you don't ever watch anything live, you just watch what you choose to record or what it spoon-feeds you. There are these channels on modern television, they're called NEWS channels. And if you're REALLY adventurous, you might actually find some LIVE NEWS (gasp!) that's done in your home town, so you can stay connected with your local community and the issues instead of feeling tied to your TiVo and your internet connection, either being coddled by one or feeling the need to preach the virtues of it on the other.

This isn't real life, folks. Neither is TiVo. TiVo isn't alive, it's not a creature that is intuitive and knows what you like or don't like. It's a piece of electronic equipment, manufactured in some small Asian country I'd bet, where someone's busting their butt to make sure you don't have to get OFF YOUR butt - heaven forbid you would engage your brains for at least a moment and actually choose your own entertainment for you. And, while I'm at it, I'd like to point out that not only isn't TiVo alive, it's certainly NOT worth all of the time and energy you wacko freaks are putting into debating it here! Good lord, how much geekier and completely pathetic can you be?

I thought this was a helpful forum to help me learn about TiVo, which is supposed to make things more convenient for me. You know, free up my time so I can go about my LIFE. For those of you unfamiliar with that word, I'd recommend www.dictionary.com, since you're already glued to your PC reading my every word. LIFE. Get out of the house! Walk your dog! Play with your kids, if you're among the people fortunate enough to have a woman! Drive to the grocery store and get some nourishing food, buy a magazine while you're there, and come home and do something besides THIS or THAT! Educate yourself, further yourself, and spend some time on something that really matters.

Because this is just pathetic.

Don't even bother responding - I'm so done, it's not even funny. After all, I have things to do. Jobs to go to, dogs to walk, sunshine to soak up, books to read, and if I do plop my ass in front of the television, I'm sure I'll be watching something enriching like CNN or - gasp - that local news I've heard so much about.

"Demented and sad, but social."

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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 12:36 PM
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Carey
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Um...

Yeah... well...

Hmmm....

...

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phone1 is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 12:56 PM
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Carey - based on your other thread - you have had your TiVo for all of TWO days. Yet you feel qualified to pontificate here about TiVo's many shortcomings. I'm not surprised at the reception you received. I look forward to reading your posts if and when you have something substantive and positive to offer. Until then - sayonara.

__________________
HDVR2 35 Hrs. -> 212 Hrs. with TwinBreeze™
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Carey is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 01:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by phone1
Carey - based on your other thread - you have had your TiVo for all of TWO days. Yet you feel qualified to pontificate here about TiVo's many shortcomings. I'm not surprised at the reception you received. I look forward to reading your posts if and when you have something substantive and positive to offer. Until then - sayonara.


All of which you have not offered any help nor have you backed up your previous derogatory statement towards me with any evidence.

So, if your responses are typical examples of what someone can expect from attempting to seek assistance and guidence in this forum, it's a wonder anyone sticks around longer than 2 days.

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 05:48 PM
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BrettStah
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Carey, let's summarize:

1) You think Tivo should have more options.
2) Most Tivo owners agree with you.
3) Most Tivo owners still like the features their Tivos currently have, especially when compared to the alternatives out there.
4) You asked for a DVR without a subscription and DVD recorder, and I gave you a link to one. You somehow missed the fact that it does timer-based recordings like a VCR, and I quoted the website that mentions that fact.
5) Every complaint you have about Tivo is not a new one, so therefore Tivo owners are aware that their Tivos aren't perfect. (See #3)
6) Taking 10-20 seconds to configure default settings on a new season pass seems a heck of a lot easier than dealing with tapes and VCRs each week. You did a good job in describing some of the problems associated with VCRs though.

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ihula808 is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 07:02 PM
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ihula808
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Cool

i put a post in already but would like to reply regarding requied CC. What about a person who had to file bk now has money to go buy a tivo but not the money to put on the subscription after already getting the tivo. And my bank has no debit card system. I have to wait 2 months to save the money up for lifetime but can't do montly for those 2 months. That doesn't seem fair.

Aloha from Hawaii

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Rob Helmerichs is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 07:31 PM
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Rob Helmerichs
Um...

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4781

I find it odd that you think insulting 23,000 people is less insulting than insulting one person...

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sacherjj is offline Old Post 11-26-2002 09:28 PM
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sacherjj
Recumbent Cyclist

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 26

quote:
Originally posted by Carey
All of which you have not offered any help nor have you backed up your previous derogatory statement towards me with any evidence.

So, if your responses are typical examples of what someone can expect from attempting to seek assistance and guidence in this forum, it's a wonder anyone sticks around longer than 2 days.



Carey, I was the first to respond to your large post about the drawbacks of the TiVo. I tried to give a good explanation of each of your points. I took my time out to try and help you understand my viewpoint of the device. I didn't deliberately try to make derogatory statements, although some of my response was in regard to your seriously negative tone. I don't exactly agree with the "trolling" terms thrown around in this thread, but I can understand why they are being used. It's kind of an "attract more flies with honey than vinegar" thing. Your post about your TiVo experience was seriously harsh.

You keep mentioning that TiVo owners say this product is perfect and setup false expectations for you. As others have noted, we don't. Many have posted a large number of your objections into the Suggestions Forum. Others feel exactly opposite about other of your objections. For me, TiVo is just the best option out there.

I was indeed trying to be helpful in my post, and hope you find the perfect product for you. For me it isn't worth my time to try to justify TiVo to you. If it works for you, use it. If not, take it back. I'll still use mine.

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