All models have built in clear-QAM digital cable and over-the-air ATSC tuners.

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>>> All models have built in clear-QAM digital cable and over-the-air ATSC tuners. <<<
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06-24-2004 07:49 PM

MediaLivingRoom
Special Ed Student

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Alviso, California
Posts: 714

All models have built in clear-QAM digital cable and over-the-air ATSC tuners.

Why can't TiVo have this?

Please read below.

CableCard can be an option, right? The FCC does not require TiVo to include this for DVR's. So can we have at least: Clear-QAM digital cable and over-the-air ATSC tuners?

http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layo...icleID=CA421795

In CRT direct view products, Samsung will carry eight models with built-in ATSC tuners in four screen sizes. All but one model has a suggested retail price starting at under $1,000.

All models have built in clear-QAM digital cable and over-the-air ATSC tuners, but omit CableCard compatibility. By screen size, the company will offer three models in 30W-inch 16:9 ($999, $999 and $1,199.99), two models in 26W-inches 16:9 ($699 each), two models in 32-inch 4:3 ($999 each) and a 27-inch 4:3 ($699).

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06-24-2004 08:58 PM

KermitTheFrog
Is that a Garaffe?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA, USA
Posts: 197

The market would be so rediculiously small that it's not worth Tivo's R&D time.

KC

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06-24-2004 09:03 PM

rasheed
Advanced Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Southern California
Posts: 810

There is an expected 3.5 million households to be using HD in their homes by the end of the year. That is about 3% (or less) based on total households. However, it is important to note that their adoption of PVR devices is probably very high (more than 75%) which could be big in terms of sales.

However, a HD TiVo box that is compatable with OTA or cable systems should have a QAM and cable-card (for pay channels) (and ATSC for OTA signal). The QAM at the moment is only most effective for HD OTA channels carried by providers because they are not typically encrypted (not requiring a cable card). So, someone with a QAM tuner could usually see HD OTA channels carried by their cable provider without a cable provider box.

Rasheed

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06-24-2004 09:55 PM

ellinj
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Posts: 1308

Are any cable companies planning to re-broadcast OTA HD such as NBC,ABC in the clear?

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06-25-2004 02:04 AM

Dennis Wilkinson
Advanced Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: East Freetown, MA
Posts: 917

quote:
Originally posted by ellinj
Are any cable companies planning to re-broadcast OTA HD such as NBC,ABC in the clear?

Comcast does in my market, although some (most?) of the in-the-clear QAM tuners don't number the channels like a Comcast-provided digital cable box would.

I, too, think we're looking at a too-limited market. It'd be fine for (the small number of) folks who only want HD over-the-air, but I suspect that it'd be too limited for anyone receiving most of their HD from a cable co. Comcast, for example, has dozens if not hundreds of channels broadcast using QAM (all the digital SD channels plus the much smaller number of HD channels.) A grand total of 4 HD channels and 4 SD channels are broadcast in the clear - in fact, the channels broadcast in the clear are only those that I could receive OTA anyway, plus a single preview channel. An OpenCable box is the only way to go to address the cable market, IMHO, although I'd admit to not minding if the box also had ATSC tuners in it as well.

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06-25-2004 04:01 PM

sbourgeo
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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 1271

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Wilkinson
Comcast does in my market, although some (most?) of the in-the-clear QAM tuners don't number the channels like a Comcast-provided digital cable box would.

I live on the other side of town and all of the HDTV channels on Comcast have different numbers:

code:
Network	Comcast	QAM
FOX	825	84-2
ABC	805	85-1
NBC	807	85-2
CBS	804	88-2
...

I get crap with OTA reception and will eventually end up with a DVR that will work with HDTV from my pals at Comcast. Hopefully, it'll be a TiVo.

Steve

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06-25-2004 04:23 PM

classicsat
Astute User

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ontario Canada.
Posts: 2490

Technically, they can build one tuner module that can handle both QAM and ATSC.

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06-25-2004 05:31 PM

MediaLivingRoom
Special Ed Student

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Alviso, California
Posts: 714

What about the current Digital Cable?? Most companies have digital cable even if there are no HD or little HD, Can't we just use QAM tuners for those?

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06-25-2004 05:58 PM

bkdtv
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 1298

Media,

Yes, Tivo will almost certainly offer a CableCard model next year. This will allow them to deliver native support for digital cable channels (eliminating the need for a digital cable box) with dual-tuner functionality. It remains to be seen whether Tivo will support HDTV with their initial CableCard products. HDTV substantially increases the memory and storage requirements.

quote:
Can't we just use QAM tuners for those?

Aside from the HDTV locals, which are unencrypted on Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, and other major cable systems, most digital channels on cable are encrypted. A Tivo can't just support QAM, it has to support CableCard to receive these encrypted digital cable channels.

You lease the CableCard (looks like a PCMCIA card) from your cable company for $0.00 to $2.50/mo; this plugs into the box and provides the authorization to decrypt the digital cable channels you receive as part of your subscription. You no longer need to use or lease a set-top box from the cable company.

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06-25-2004 08:09 PM

rasheed
Advanced Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Southern California
Posts: 810

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
You lease the CableCard (looks like a PCMCIA card) from your cable company for $0.00 to $2.50/mo; this plugs into the box and provides the authorization to decrypt the digital cable channels you receive as part of your subscription. You no longer need to use or lease a set-top box from the cable company.

Actually, there are some quotes from Comcast that indicates they will charge 6.95 for each additional cablecard (1 is included with the cost of the service packages -- assuming you don't take their box). 6.95 is identical to the cost if you got one of their digital boxes for 'additional outlets'.

Rasheed

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06-25-2004 10:50 PM

bkdtv
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 1298

rasheed,

Yes, all Comcast systems plan to charge for each secondary CableCard, afaik. Actual pricing will vary by market / division.

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06-25-2004 11:04 PM

MediaLivingRoom
Special Ed Student

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Alviso, California
Posts: 714

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
Media,

Yes, Tivo will almost certainly offer a CableCard model next year. This will allow them to deliver native support for digital cable channels (eliminating the need for a digital cable box) with dual-tuner functionality. It remains to be seen whether Tivo will support HDTV with their initial CableCard products. HDTV substantially increases the memory and storage requirements.

Aside from the HDTV locals, which are unencrypted on Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, and other major cable systems, most digital channels on cable are encrypted. A Tivo can't just support QAM, it has to support CableCard to receive these encrypted digital cable channels.

You lease the CableCard (looks like a PCMCIA card) from your cable company for $0.00 to $2.50/mo; this plugs into the box and provides the authorization to decrypt the digital cable channels you receive as part of your subscription. You no longer need to use or lease a set-top box from the cable company.

Does next year really mean: Dec 31, 2005???

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06-26-2004 12:47 AM

Dan203
Cyn-er

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Posts: 3744

quote:
Originally posted by MediaLivingRoom
Does next year really mean: Dec 31, 2005???

It could. However most new products are released around October/November to facilitate the holiday buying season.

Dan

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06-26-2004 04:08 AM

bkdtv
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 1298

During their last analysts conference, Tivo did say we might see something about CableCard around the end of this year -- an announcement at CES in January wouldn't be out of the question. As to whether it will support HDTV (or just digital SD channels), and when it will be available...who knows.

The longer Tivo waits, the longer they give cable companies to get their act together.

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06-26-2004 01:37 PM

rdkyl
New Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 3

cable cards

I might add cable cards or cable card tv's will not support two way operations that you local cable compaines provide. Such as VOD & PPV

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06-26-2004 02:38 PM

Bigg
Advanced Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 830

VOD is something TiVo makes obsolete.

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06-26-2004 03:19 PM

rdkyl
New Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 3

vod tivo

Yes if you could only get the content through TIVO

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06-26-2004 03:32 PM

bkdtv
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 1298

quote:
I might add cable cards or cable card tv's will not support two way operations that you local cable compaines provide. Such as VOD & PPV

Note this is just for first-generation, one-way CableCard products. The two-way CableCard standard is expected in the next 6-9 months. This will support VOD and guide information. I would expect a CableCard Tivo to make use of the two-way standard.

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06-27-2004 06:51 AM

dt_dc
Mostly Harmless

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 435

quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
The two-way CableCard standard is expected in the next 6-9 months. This will support VOD and guide information. I would expect a CableCard Tivo to make use of the two-way standard.

The standards exist now. It's the agreement between the MSOs and CEA that's being worked on. Even after that is finished ... it's going to have to go through the FCC ... I wouldn't expect two way products until mid 2006 at the earliest.

Also, guide data is provided for one-way products.

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06-27-2004 08:18 AM

bkdtv
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location:
Posts: 1298

quote:
The standards exist now.

Also, guide data is provided for one-way products.

No, there is no standard until the FCC mandates it. What we have now are specifications, some of which are still in flux.

As far as guide-data for one way products, there is IPG information sent in-band or out-of-band on many cable networks, but not necessarily all in the same format. The QPSK IPG information on SA head-ends is not compatible with Motorola receivers, for example.

Last edited by bkdtv on 06-27-2004 at 08:56 AM

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