Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 426

We'll probably buy a minivan this week. We are biased toward the Honda Oddity and it seems the price has come down in anticipation of the 2005. Relatively low on features (e.g., three-zone climate control) but not really lacking anything critical. Extremely popular.

Drove a Dodge Grand Caravan / Chrysler T&C 2005. Heavily advertised. Fold-away back seat seems great, but would we use it? Lots of features. 7 yr 70K warranty is appealing.

Drove a Mercury Monterey. Plenty of extra features. $4K in Mercury incentives makes it appealing.

Question One: If we will keep this 10 years (per our habit), are we foolish to buy American rather than Japanese?

Question Two: How does one buy a car these days? USAA has a buying service. I don't know if that actually saves money or saves hassle. We could go to Edmunds.com to see what most people are paying and try to beat that. What other tools are there for negotiation and purchase?

Question Three: Anyone have a Grand Caravan or Monterey they really love or hate? Since there are two dozen Hondas in every shopping center parking lot, and the general word is that they are great, I wonder if there is a reason to consider anything else.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3840

IMHO, get either the Honda or a Toyota if you want it to last 10 years. We have a 2003 Odyssey and it's the best 'car' we've ever owned.

Whatever you do, make sure you get the DVD!

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Campbell, CA
Posts: 1161

Consumer Reports seems to favor the Toyota Sienna over the Honda. I would definately take a look at it before deciding.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Windsor, CA
Posts: 754

We have a 2002 Grand Caravan that we love. Researched a lot online before driving different vans. Then purchased it the old fashioned way.

I found I prefered the leg room of the GC rather than the Oddity. GC has great power ( got the larger V6..3.3 litre?). Our rear seats don't fold down into the floor, but are very easy to remove when needed. Like I said, we love the GC. Since it replaced my trusty Ford Ranger, I use it to haul all kinds of stuff. We've taken it all over the place and have never had a problem with it.
I did read in Consumer Reports that they now consider the Toyota Sienna to have surpassed the GC based on their rating system. But at the time we purchased ours, GC was king.

If you have any GC questions, just ask!

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 362

It's Odyssey BTW, not Oddity.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 633

I just purchased an Odyssey in April. I looked at both the Sienna and the Odyssey. Both are great minivans, but we just didn't think the Sienna was worth the extra $$$. In addition, the dizzying array of options on the Sienna makes it very hard to find just the one you're looking for. By contrast, the Odyssey's option packages are simple.

Right now demand is low and supply high on the Odyssey so you can/should get a great deal.

Please let me know if you have other questions, I'd be glad to help!

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Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 94

Question Two: How does one buy a car these days? USAA has a buying service. I don't know if that actually saves money or saves hassle. We could go to Edmunds.com to see what most people are paying and try to beat that. What other tools are there for negotiation and purchase?

From recent car buying experience. there are 4 phases to negotiating:

1) Negotiating the car. The dealer will try to put you on the oldest new car on the lot cause they want it off the lot. Pick your car and stick with it.

2) Negotiating the price. Find out BEFORE YOU GET TO THE DEALERSHIP what the wholesale cost should be. Pay $40 for consumer reports new car thing-a-ma-jig or search on line. Figure out what you WANT to pay and then start about 10% less.

3) Negotiate the loan: If you haven't got a loan or aren't paying cash, Negotiate the interest rate. Don't let them try to do the "how much payment can you afford?" crap. Get the price of the car, then say, my credit score is XXX, I want this interest rate. Car dealers get a kick back on higher interest rates.

4) When you go in to sign the papers, they try to sell you on Warranty, clear coat protectants, etc. DONT BUY ANYTHING FROM THE CLOSER. You can get a better extended warranty for the car online and if you buy Toyota you may not even use it.

and the most important part, DO NOT ATTACH TO THE CAR. Be ready to walk away whenever they piss you off.
Get a loan before you go in or you will ge

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Registered: May 2001
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 352

We bought the Nissan Quest last December and LOVE it! If you would have told me a couple of years ago I would own a minivan I would have told you you're crazy. But I just loved the look of this one. I think it looks more car-like than the others and has the cool center console. Give it a look, I have always had great luck with Nissans.

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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
Posts: 1143

I've had 2 Plymouth Voyagers, similar but cheaper than the Grand Caravan which were nice, but the transmissions went out oh, about 7 times between the two of them. So, that left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth and took a drive in the Ford Windstar. It's a decent van, and has been much more reliable than my old Voyagers. However, the new version of the Windstar is called the Freestar which does have a folding rear seat. Don't discount the idea of folding rear seats as not being important. Hauling them in and out is indeed a pain in the rear. All of the rear seats fold into the floor of the new Chrysler which would be very nice IMO (dunno how much cargo space you are losing though because of a possible taller floor). Even though I was upset with my Voyager minivans, the wife wanted a Sebring convertible. It's been a great car, however, I was getting scared when I saw the transmission bleeding at about 79,000 miles. A simple gasket replacement fixed that.

The Honda Odyssey and Toyota look like great alternatives, but you are gonna pay a premium for them.

Scooter

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Windsor, CA
Posts: 754

quote:

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Originally posted by paulfife
It's Odyssey BTW, not Oddity.

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Umm, yeah...ok. That was a bit of humor there.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: In the aimless void called CT
Posts: 2452

When we bought our last 2 cars I used carsdirect.com pricing info for neg.

On the 2001 RX300 we purchased from carsdirect because our local dealers wouldn't come CLOSE to their price.

On my golf my local dealership can to about 100 (which was 500 or so over invoice) of the carsdirect price.

Basically when you walk out of there YOU need to be happy with how much you paid. For some that means getting the best deal possible even if they have to deal with a month of headaches to get it. For me it was getting a good deal at my rule of thumb of 500 over invoice for a car I wanted that met the specs I wanted without much hassel. And prefferably also from a local dealer I could develop a relationship with incase I needed an TLC in the event something was wrong.

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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: location, location.
Posts: 2054

Take a look at the safety ratings as well. The Odyssey and Sienna were top-rated a year or two ago, but things may have changed and there may be other good ones now.

Whatever you do end up with - the Odyssey, Sienna, and Grand Caravan are all good vehicles. You'd probably be happy with any of them.

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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Ocee, Georgia USA
Posts: 1346

I helped my folks purchase a new van two years ago. They purchased a Plymouth mini-van; their fourth one in a row. Regardless of the brand you prefer, I believe the following info will still apply:

1. Go to your bank and/or credit union and get pre-applied for a loan, if required. Of course, if you are paying in cash, all the better.

2. If you have a vehicle to sell/trade in, research its current value. And be realistic about it. www.kbb.com and www.edmonds.com are both good places to start. Trading in a vehicle will take away some of its value, but takes away the hassle of selling it. Using the two above resources I was able to ID the trade in value of my folks' van within fifty dollars.

3. Use the above sites to determine the MSRP and "invoice" pricing of the vehicles desired. This will give you a baseline to work with. In addition, make sure you determine what rebates currently apply. My folks' new van had a $3K rebate on it. Of course it was never mentioned during the sales process. Just the "we will give you a great deal" BS from the sales guy. Around here, paying at invoice minus rebate is considered reasonable.

4. Don't forget to check with your insurance agent to determine how much your rate will increase with the new vehicle.

5. Information is power. For example, it was almost EXACTLY two years ago that my folks wanted a new van. In June, Plymouth had a $2500 rebate available. I was worried that we needed to buy before the end of the month. It didn't happen. However, on 1 July, the rebate increased to $3K. We were just lucky. However, had I not researched it, I would not have known about it at all.

If you don't think car dealers have a very high margin, take a look at this spreadsheet I made up for my folks. With their last van, their local dealer, who sold them their THREE previous vehicles, actually sold them the van at over ONE THOUSAND OVER STICKER ... talk about ripping off senior citizens!!! Granted, the vehicle was a transfer from another dealer, but that is still ridiculous. So, to show my folks the saving we experienced with the 2002 purchase, I created this spreadsheet. First column was their 1998 van as purchased; second column is 2002 van if it were purchased under the same conditions as the 1998 van; third column is 2002 van if you were to walk in and buy one; last column was actual purchase terms.

http://www.yamaharick.com/yamaharic...us/2002_van.htm

Good luck to ya!

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3840

quote:

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Originally posted by jschuman
I just purchased an Odyssey in April. I looked at both the Sienna and the Odyssey. Both are great minivans, but we just didn't think the Sienna was worth the extra $$$. In addition, the dizzying array of options on the Sienna makes it very hard to find just the one you're looking for. By contrast, the Odyssey's option packages are simple.

Right now demand is low and supply high on the Odyssey so you can/should get a great deal.

---

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Registered: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 720

I love my Chevy Venture, Warner's Bros. Edition. Nowadays, EVERY van has an entertainment system, but now having had it, I would NOT get a vehicle without one...even if it is not factory-installed. Besides the unbelievable Warner Bros. package (every 3-4 months in the first two years of ownership they sent us GREAT gifts {I am not kidding...really good stuff, totally unannounced would arrive in the mail}, I LOVE the three-across middle row. It turned out to be the single most important feature for me with a family of three small kids. We seldom use the back row when its the five of us- giving us TONS of storage and eliminating the "climbing" in and out as in all mini-vans.
I heartily recommend my van!

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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: location, location.
Posts: 2054

quote:

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Originally posted by jilter
every 3-4 months in the first two years of ownership they sent us GREAT gifts {I am not kidding...really good stuff, totally unannounced would arrive in the mail}

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 577

quote:

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Originally posted by jschuman
I just purchased an Odyssey in April. I looked at both the Sienna and the Odyssey. Both are great minivans, but we just didn't think the Sienna was worth the extra $$$. In addition, the dizzying array of options on the Sienna makes it very hard to find just the one you're looking for. By contrast, the Odyssey's option packages are simple.

Right now demand is low and supply high on the Odyssey so you can/should get a great deal.

Please let me know if you have other questions, I'd be glad to help!

---

This is eerie.... You live the next town over, bought the same van I did, the same month I did, after considering the same other van I did, and made the decision for the same two reasons I did ($$$$$ and Option choice).

Could it be that I am schizophrenic and both personalities love TCF?

Seriously (and I apologize for the slight thread hijack), millions of option packages frustrate me to no end. And, TOYOTA, if I am spending nearly $30K on a mini-van.... don't charge me $119 for floor mats! I don't care if your sales guys ALWAYS throw them in. That nickle and dime stuff doesn't leave me with a good feeling when I am spending that much money. (/hijack)

As for purchasing your new van, I went through the same process 2 months ago. Test drove the new GC, Toyota Sienna, Mazda MPV, Ford Freestar, and the Odyssey. Enjoyed the test drive on all but the Freestar. The MPV was too small. The rest came down to $$$$. The Sienna was more expensive for a comparably equipped car. The GC was very nice, but we had concerns about getting the first new model year. So, that left the Odyssey, which we absolutely loved.

Once we knew we wanted to go with the Odyssey, we went through Costco. They have an autobuying process where they send you to a special "Costco approved dealer" and they have a no-haggle low price. It was under what EDMUNDS said was the fair market value so we bought. 30 minutes was all it took. I recommend the process only if you know what you want and you don't feel bad walking away if the price is too high.

If you have any questions about the various other reasons we went with the Odyssey, feel free to PM me.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1968

quote:

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Originally posted by montag
IMHO, get either the Honda or a Toyota if you want it to last 10 years. We have a 2003 Odyssey and it's the best 'car' we've ever owned.

Whatever you do, make sure you get the DVD!

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Registered: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 720

The salesperson never mentioned it all - either prior or post closing.
We received a great (I mean great!) picnic blanket, a collapsible cooler, a bronze keychain, and a couple more items I can not recall-all with the WB logo. Also, a certificate to pick three DVD family movies, plus another certificate allowing you to choose either a DVD player OR a 100.00 gift card from Blockbuster's. Simply incredible and very much a surprise. Very classy. Oh yeah, we also had a discount to Warner Bros. stores, but unfortunately they closed before we got to use that. (When my kids were little, we LOVED the WB stores...their stuff was great!)

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 633

quote:

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Originally posted by LeVich34
This is eerie.... You live the next town over, bought the same van I did, the same month I did, after considering the same other van I did, and made the decision for the same two reasons I did ($$$$$ and Option choice).

Could it be that I am schizophrenic and both personalities love TCF?

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