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Chicken without a head?

Who is the conductor on this train? What is this core group? How does the core group relate to the effort on sourceforge.net? Is there some level of organiztion to the effort that I am not seeing?

I checked the help wanted section on sourceforge and did not see a single entry for the tivo effort. Is somthing rotten here or do we just lack organization?

We need to get the people with the right skill sets working on the parts they can do best and then let others know that it is in the works so as to not duplicate efforts.



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Howard
howardr@howardTheHumble.usa.to

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quote:

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Originally posted by rebel:
Who is the conductor on this train? What is this core group? How does the core group relate to the effort on sourceforge.net? Is there some level of organiztion to the effort that I am not seeing?

I checked the help wanted section on sourceforge and did not see a single entry for the tivo effort. Is somthing rotten here or do we just lack organization?

We need to get the people with the right skill sets working on the parts they can do best and then let others know that it is in the works so as to not duplicate efforts.

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It's more a loosely knit anarchy.

If you want some organization in the effort, go for it, start some. I'm just try to keep order here in the forums.


And, just because I want to say so:
Duplicate efforts = a good thing.

I mean come on, it's not like we're forming a company here. Hacking things like this is a hobby, not a career.

/rant mode on/
And this is not directed at anyone specific, more of a general comment: if you haven't contributed anything, you have no right to bitch about anything. I've seen some new members come on and then whine that they can't understand what's going on. Well? Nobody's gonna hold your hand around here, and that's just how it is. If you haven't got the intelligence to learn how to do this stuff yourself, you shouldn't be doing it at all. You can seriously break your equipment and really need to know exactly what the f*** you are doing. This stuff isn't exactly easy, and these people are doing it for free. Some of them are using their hard earned money for it. Bitching at them about it only makes them want to stop doing it. So if you want things to be easier to do, all you really have to do is to shut up, sit back, and wait. They we're figuring it out before you came here, they'll keep doing it if you don't piss them off by complaining.

And if you have a problem with any of that, send an email to /dev/null.
/rant mode off/

Whew...

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Moderator - AVS Forum - Tivo Underground
"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will!" -- Yoda

[This message has been edited by Otto (edited July 24, 2000).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Belboz:
The tivohack.sourceforge.net site is run by the TiVo Enhancement Team. That is cc, Peter, TiVoTechie, Bonehead, sorphin, and probably others I am forgetting.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Otto:
...snip...
If you haven't got the intelligence to learn how to do this stuff yourself, you shouldn't be doing it at all.
...snip...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Creath:
Actually, sorphin is not part of the sourceforge group.

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quote:

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If the people that wish to promote Linux will stop _this_ kind of non-answer, Linux will become much more popular and MS will not continue the stranglehold it currently enjoys.

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quote:

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Originally posted by emathieu504:
But don't you see? This is not a "non-answer". The issue is that you just want everyone to GIVE you everything, as opposed to learning it. Anything anyone has learned is available somewhere... Get a book. Learn a little on your own. You can't expect everyone to give you every answer.


Funny, i think i've said this before, but since i'm known for being the resident ***, i guess my saying it gets ignored, maybe they'll listen to you emathieu.


And as far as Linux becoming more popular and challeging MS, I couldn't care less, as it does what I need, and I don't have any vested financial interests in seeing any flavor of Linux take over the market (I actually like it the way it is now)...

I'm with on that one bro, i use linux because it suits what i need it for, i also run solaris for the things it's good for, flame me all you want, but linux is not the 'supreme OS', every OS has it's advantages/disadvantages, i've been using unix for 7+ years, and while i like linux very much, if something better did come along that served my uses better, (and wasn't closed minded), i'd be opted to switch.


There's a LOT of information available out there. Most of the information you seek has already been posted here, but granted, some of it is not in a "easy to digest format" for people who are newbies to Linux. Get over it. Learn Linux. Then you'll understand.

I wish that'd happen, but i doubt it ever will, some people don't either have the skills, some don't have the time, and some just don't care and want it all handed to them as you said.

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Location: Seattle, WA USA
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>>If the people that wish to promote Linux will stop _this_ kind of non-answer, Linux will become much more popular

Linux is not some kind of black art. (you should know better since you have it running yourself) The basic operations within Unix/Linux are no more difficult than DOS, but are many times more powerful. It isn't rocket science, and the current distributions are much easier/faster that a Windows install.

>>I do NOT lack the "intelligence" to learn and build the tools, I simply lack the time.

Anyone that has the time to read and post in these forums certainly has time to spare. Your time is no more valuable than anyone else's here.

Although the storage upgrade can now be done with a bootdisk on a non-Linux PC, it still takes a modicum of familiarity with basic hardware architecture (and dare I say...torx drivers ) Much of the "Linux Attitude" you refer to comes from having to listen to "busy" people who want to reap the benefits of a hobbyist's labor-of-love without exerting even the tiniest amount of personal effort to get themselves up to speed.(like reading the help files that come with any operating system or doing a simple web or newsgroup search for the definition of a term they aren't familiar with)

This is not a personal attack on you or anyone else in any of these forums, but it does apply to just about any tech forum that's open to the public. As a society, we have all become fairly used to farming out certain tasks in our daily lives to "specialists" like auto mechanics, dog groomers, medical practitioners, etc. In those situations, money is changing hands. There are legal rights and responsibilities that apply to both parties in the transaction. OTOH when someone in the shareware/hacking/open-source community gives me something for free, I have no rights and they have no responsibilities. It's just that simple. Unfortunately, many people can't understand why the "free" world doesn't operate like the business world.

When I bought my first Tivo, I was a veteran micro-computer user and electronics technician but I didn't know Unix/Linux from a hole in the ground. Since then, I've studied the OS, Perl, C, and poured over every confusing script I could lay my hands on. My efforts were not entirely because of the Tivo, but it was an additional driving force. I'm not quite in a position yet to contribute much to the efforts here, but I learn something new every day.

BTW, anyone who thinks that programmers and hackers are hard to get along with is a wimp. Try a few months on a tour bus with a drug-addled rock band and THEN we'll talk.

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Patrick Callahan
Check out www.themothership.net for links to the latest PTV technologies!

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quote:

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Originally posted by sorphin:
i bothered to submit things i did to you guys.

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quote:

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Originally posted by srs:
Precisely the attitude that I reference in: http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum6/HTML/000160.html

If the people that wish to promote Linux will stop _this_ kind of non-answer, Linux will become much more popular and MS will not continue the stranglehold it currently enjoys.

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soundguy, WELL SAID! I think you have captured the essence of what's happening. These attitudes are, unfortunately, becoming pervasive in our culture as we become more and more "hooked" on being able to pay to have nearly everything done for us, combined with the "gotta have it now" concept.

I think another key part of this equation is the "90/10" rule. Even for projects such as this, the vast majority of the time would be spent making everything "A:INSTALL", compared to the amount of time needed to get the hack working in "raw" form. This is time that the original author can save to use for other menial things, such as being with his/her family, having a "life", doing other hacks etc.

In other words, not only is no one getting paid to create these procedures, the authors are in fact using up their own personal time to create FREE software/procedures that they willingly GIVE away for others to share.

For those of you who have never spent personal blood, sweat and tears for a open source project or the like, about all you get aside from personal satisfaction is an occasional "thank you", but for most projects, there are just a bunch of people who want to use it whose only question is "where do I download it from?".

Now, looking from this perspective, it should be easy to see how folks could get rubbed a bit the wrong way by having someone say to them, in effect, "you haven't worked enough nights and weekends to make this easy for me to install, and since *I* don't have time to figure it out, YOU should work more on it so I can spend less time on it. Where can I download THAT version?"

"If you don't have time to read the manual, I don't have time to read it to you"

Brad

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quote:

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and dare I say...torx drivers

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quote:

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Originally posted by bsnelson:

"If you don't have time to read the manual, I don't have time to read it to you"

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i love that. it's so.... correct.


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-ds
Member of the #TiVo Enhancement Project
(Not to be confused with the SourceForge Group)

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Dylan, LOL!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dylan:
Another driver? Oh, geez. I went to www.torx.com but it seems like the site is down. Is this a Linux driver or a Windows driver or maybe it runs on the TiVo. Great, I guess I have to go to Best Buy and get the special Torx T10 card so I can install this driver. Can't you guys make this easier?

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Well.. If you're having trouble finding the Torx driver, you can always modify the system to use the standard drivers available just about anywhere. You need to adjust the screw settings using the filing system (aka "steel file"), and create the correct interface for the standard driver. I really only recommend this when you overpower the Torx driver interface and Suddenly Tragically Readjust Internal Points (STRIP) the Torx interface. But some people might find it easier. And if you can't do that yourself, you're just up a creek, buddy.




------------------
Moderator - AVS Forum - Tivo Underground
"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will!" -- Yoda

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>>I really only recommend this when you overpower the Torx driver interface

Once you've hose the interface, the only practical solution is to employ a rotary decompiler:


------------------
Patrick Callahan
Check out www.themothership.net for links to the latest PTV technologies!

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Location: Irvine, CA
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quote:

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Originally posted by Otto:

/rant mode on/
And this is not directed at anyone specific, more of a general comment: if you haven't contributed anything, you have no right to bitch about anything. I've seen some new members come on and then whine that they can't understand what's going on. Well? Nobody's gonna hold your hand around here, and that's just how it is. If you haven't got the intelligence to learn how to do this stuff yourself, you shouldn't be doing it at all. You can seriously break your equipment and really need to know exactly what the f*** you are doing. This stuff isn't exactly easy, and these people are doing it for free. Some of them are using their hard earned money for it. Bitching at them about it only makes them want to stop doing it. So if you want things to be easier to do, all you really have to do is to shut up, sit back, and wait. They we're figuring it out before you came here, they'll keep doing it if you don't piss them off by complaining.

And if you have a problem with any of that, send an email to /dev/null.
/rant mode off/

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Registered: Feb 2000
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Otto: "Note that I am working on a FAQ to make it easier to find things, slowly but surely. Don't expect it anytime soon however."

Not so easy to create an FAQ, is it?

I think deciding how to organize it is the toughest part.

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-- Colonel Michael, TiVo Army - TiVo Help Center AVSForum Moderator
FAQ Editor: http://www.avscience.com/users/tivofaq/

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Lopez:
I also think that if people are going to post information here, then they should be willing to help ‘all’ the users and not just the ones that understand every detail. That is the purpose of a ‘forum’ like this. Just my .02

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