Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 30

Rich T, the problem with adding a larger drive is that you fill it up.

I have a 100G drive added to mine (total of 126 hours) with ~120 hours of programming I would like to save (and almost all of this is since the beginning of the year). I could go out and buy a pair of 160G drives (of which the tivo can only use 137G of each) and this will probably last me about a year (I put a 120G and 60G in a friend's tivo and he filled it in a month, not all with shows he wanted to save permanently, but even so...)

the problem is that after I have filled the drives I have to pull the drives and put in another set to save the programs. To watch an old program I need to swap the drives, and then go through the steps to let the tivo dial-out becouse it's been more then 15 days since the last connection. That friend I mentioned has two sets of 30+15G drives saved this way, both sets full of programs he wants to save.

the real need is to be able to get the programs off of the tivo onto something that is removeable so that total program space is only limited by your budget and soace for the media.

currently it's possible to pull programs from the tivo, but without special hacks ahead of time the programs are encrypted. there isn't much info out there to figure out how to put shows back onto the tivo to play them again (there is just enough to give hints, but that's a discussion that can't be carried out on this board :-)

HOWEVER, there is hope. Tivo has said that one feature they plan to release 'in the future' is the ability for tivos in the same house to share programs. when this happens it should be straightforward to extend this to park them on some convienient media as well (I'm guessing they'll set all tivos in the same house/account to use the same encryption code or something like that). we just have to wait

in the meantime I'm going back to following up on those hints I mentioned earlier :-)

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Registered: May 2002
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Posts: 13

I wasn't suggesting that one merely get a larger hard drive to avoid having to archive; I was suggesting that the hard drive *be* your archive. OK, so you've filled up a drive in the past five months. That's fine, now it's time to buy another for the next five months, and in five months you'll buy yet another. The existing hard drives will be your archive. When you want to watch something on one of them, pop them in and watch. Then when you're done, and ready to record again, pop the newest one back in. This means the newest one is the only one that needs to have the program guide on it, and the only one that needs the results of the phone call.

This may seem expensive, but at $2/hour it's not bad compared to $1.50/hour for VHS tapes, $2/hour for DVD-R (and a lot cheaper than $5/hour for S-VHS).

Admittedly it's not a perfect solution, but it's all digital, relatively cheap, no time is spent copying, it works fine if you have multiple tivos, there's no copy protection issues (others have already said they move a hards drive from one machine to another without problems) and it's perfectly legal. It's not cool and cutting edge, though. But if you really want that, wouldn't you own one of those boards you plug into a pc to roll your own?

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Posts: 3

RichT:

This was one of the reasons that I have a removable drive in my TiVo. I do keep some videos archived on drives sitting on my shelf. And the costs of drives keep dropping, so it is an okay approach. Still, I would prefer to have all of one series on the same drive. I would be perfectly happy to transfer the videos from one TiVo drive to another. I am not interested in having a DVD or SVCD copy. I just want my shows better organized.

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 1000

hypothetically speaking,


I've got a full hard drive full of stuff I want to keep. So I just pop the drive out and stick it on the shelf.

I grab another drive, put my old faithful backup on it, and I’m ready to go! No, wait. It wants to get some guide data. ..It already did that today… I guess it’s ok… Ok, off it goes...

The next week, I want to see that Babalyon5 episode on the other disk. Ok, I’ll just power down and stick it in the tivo to watch it. All is well until I remember that StargateSG1 I’ve been waiting for is coming on in 10 minutes! Oh, well. So much for Babalyon5 tonight...

Three months, a new software update and 2 more disks later, I want to watch that Babalyon5 episode again.(I really like that show!) Ok, I grab the disk and stick it in. This time it says it's got to call home NOW! (it thinks it hasn’t called in for 3 months!) Ok, no problem. ...wait a minute, it's updating the software!!! It's already done that with the other disk! (in the underground, this makes me "A Moron" (tm)!!!!) Now I’m stuck letting this thing download and go through it all again!

WHEW! You can see where this is going......

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to just go to your computer, connect to your "net aware" tivo, select the show you want to archive, start the transfer and still be able to use your tivo to do other things at the same time?

btw, all of the above are perfectly legal with a standalone (originally an "analog signal", and by that fact, legal under the dmca), and is quite possible today.....

Hmmmm, maybe the folks who could code up the ability to do this stuff on a tivo just don’t want to put up with the possible reaction -“Your Killing the Tivo Company!” “If Tivo wanted us to do this they would put the functionally in themselves! …since they haven’t, it must be “A Bad Thing”™!!” “Isn’t this illegal?” – that even the mention of this functionality usually brings.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by SteakMan
Wow! You are 100% right. I'm remembering too many things that don't really relate to each other.

I found a usenet post from the last time I was discussing MP3's. My assertion then was that hard drives are not considered digital recording mediums and the DMCA had nothing to do with it. And forgetting about "Fair Use" it isn't even a criminal offense until you have more than $1000 worth of recordings.

I'll see if i can back that up.

Sorry for the confusion

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That's OK.

quote:

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However, the DMCA may come into play with the combo boxes. The recordings on the combo units are encrypted until you run a script that makes it save them unencrypted. This act may or may not be illegal, but it CAN'T be illegal for TiVo to do it themselves.

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Here I would agree. If TiVo encrypts the files, the the DMCA takes over (not withstanding 1201(c)(1) ) and makes it a crime to decrypt it w/o permission. But, as you say, it can't be a crime if TiVo does it themselves, TiVo being the encryptor.

quote:

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I can't see any legal reason for TiVo to worry about sharing in the home.
But we've already established that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

-SteakMan-

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Especially since TiVO owns the patent of video sharing over a local network.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by jmoak
Hmmmm, maybe the folks who could code up the ability to do this stuff on a tivo just don’t want to put up with the possible reaction -“Your Killing the Tivo Company!” “If Tivo wanted us to do this they would put the functionally in themselves! …since they haven’t, it must be “A Bad Thing”™!!” “Isn’t this illegal?” – that even the mention of this functionality usually brings.

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I think "they" are waiting for TiVo to do it themselves because "they" don't want to pre-invent the wheel. Once TiVo releases a "share videos between local TiVos" function, I almost guarantee that a TiVo file server program will apear to do the sort of thing I was talking about.

I can see it now: An array of 4 160GB drives...

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 94

If the functionality you folks want is "synchronized" tivos so that you can watch your tivo stuff from one of two rooms easily, you could try to do what I'm doing:

I want to be able to watch the TiVo from two different rooms. So I'm running video cable (RCA) from one room to the other. I'm buying a second Tivo remote and building myself an IR repeater from the second room back to the actual Tivo. You can buy IR repeaters as well. Heck, you can even buy wireless video transmitters (but I couldn't stomach the quality).

Total cost: about $20 for the cables, $30 for the remote, and $15 to build the IR repeater.

-Ed

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 1000

quote:

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Originally posted by Black_Dragon

I think "they" are waiting for TiVo to do it themselves because "they" don't want to pre-invent the wheel.

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Yeah, I can see your point. But, untill Tivo comes out with the "New, Improved, Nice, Smooth Wheel", I'll keep klunking along with my homemade square ones...
may not be a smooth ride, but it get's me there!

quote:

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Originally posted by Black_Dragon
Once TiVo releases a "share videos between local TiVos" function, I almost guarantee that a TiVo file server program will apear to do the sort of thing I was talking about.

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Ahhhh... I wonder if thats the reason we haven't seen a "share videos between local TiVos" function already? ...never thought about that one...

quote:

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Originally posted by Black_Dragon
I can see it now: An array of 4 160GB drives...

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Mmmmmmm, disk array.....
Aw, crap! now I got to clean up this drool!

edit: woops! forgot my smiley!

Last edited by jmoak on 05-29-2002 at 06:38 PM

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Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 13

quote:

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Originally posted by EdwinOlson
If the functionality you folks want is "synchronized" tivos so that you can watch your tivo stuff from one of two rooms easily, you could try to do what I'm doing:

I want to be able to watch the TiVo from two different rooms. So I'm running video cable (RCA) from one room to the other. I'm buying a second Tivo remote and building myself an IR repeater from the second room back to the actual Tivo. You can buy IR repeaters as well. Heck, you can even buy wireless video transmitters (but I couldn't stomach the quality).

Total cost: about $20 for the cables, $30 for the remote, and $15 to build the IR repeater.

-Ed

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by EdwinOlson
If the functionality you folks want is "synchronized" tivos so that you can watch your tivo stuff from one of two rooms easily, you could try to do what I'm doing:

I want to be able to watch the TiVo from two different rooms. So I'm running video cable (RCA) from one room to the other. I'm buying a second Tivo remote and building myself an IR repeater from the second room back to the actual Tivo. You can buy IR repeaters as well. Heck, you can even buy wireless video transmitters (but I couldn't stomach the quality).

Total cost: about $20 for the cables, $30 for the remote, and $15 to build the IR repeater.

-Ed

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: FL, NJ, US
Posts: 221

quote:

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Originally posted by jmoak
hypothetically speaking,


I've got a full hard drive full of stuff I want to keep. So I just pop the drive out and stick it on the shelf.

I grab another drive, put my old faithful backup on it, and I’m ready to go! No, wait. It wants to get some guide data. ..It already did that today… I guess it’s ok… Ok, off it goes...

The next week, I want to see that Babalyon5 episode on the other disk. Ok, I’ll just power down and stick it in the tivo to watch it. All is well until I remember that StargateSG1 I’ve been waiting for is coming on in 10 minutes! Oh, well. So much for Babalyon5 tonight...
[/SIZE]

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3582

quote:

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Originally posted by GBaz
btw upgrading more then once on a tivo does not make you a moron..puting an older version of the os on a tivo then which it came with origanaly makes you a moron.

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Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 13

quote:

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Originally posted by GBaz


I believe that there is a problem with this and TiVo would not be happy with you. You have 2 copies of the guide data. This is bad. you are only allowed one...i think this is someware in the user aggrement. If you had one hd set in tivo A and then put the second hd set into tivo B you would have guide data on both...but you are only entitled to one set of data.

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 27

I want to be able to sync with this device: http://archos.com/us/products/product_jbmm.html

Now wouldn't THAT kick ass?

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 1000

quote:

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Originally posted by GBaz


I believe that there is a problem with this and TiVo would not be happy with you.

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Well, that was the point of the post. It's not only a "Bad Thing™", it would also be a pain in the butt!
I was "hypothetically speaking"

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Registered: May 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 51

Rather than making copies on the separate tivos, what would keep you from just playing it over the LAN directly off the first tivo's harddrive?

It seems there would be no need to make a second copy and worry about legal issues.

Sort of like having a CD changer downstairs and both an amp upstairs and an amp downstairs.

What is the bandwidth of a tivo stream at various qualities?

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Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 13

quote:

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Originally posted by BradJohnson
What is the bandwidth of a tivo stream at various qualities?

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: FL, NJ, US
Posts: 221

quote:

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Originally posted by RichT


If I buy one tivo, and two hard drives, and after swapping them have to make two calls to get program guides on each one of them, isn't tivo unfairly punishing me to require that I have two subscriptions? It's to get around a space limitation of their device. Since they don't charge for the subscription based on the size of the hard drive, it seems inconsistent for them to not allow a program guide on each hard drive.

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__________________
Should Frigidaire be held legally liable for distracting TV viewers who leave the room during commercial breaks to grab a glass of milk?
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Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 1000

quote:

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Originally posted by BradJohnson
...

What is the bandwidth of a tivo stream at various qualities?

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Last edited by jmoak on 05-31-2002 at 02:20 AM

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by RichT
My rough calculations based on ads for hard drives to increase capacity are that it takes about 1 gig to store 1 hour, though I have no idea at what quality level. A wireless lan is about 10mbs, which with error correction is I beleive about 1 MB per second, or 3.6 GB per hour. So even without

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802.11b is 11Mbit/sec maximum. (802.11a is about 55MBit/sec IIRC.) 8MBits = 1MByte so 11 MBit is 1.375MBytes/sec maximum in theory, far less in practice (not even 1MByte for most setups).

quote:

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wires it should be fine, in theory. But my wireless connection at home in an apartment is either dead, or 6%, which would kill it. Also, if 1 gig/hour is for low quality, and it's 4 gig/hour for high quality, it won't even work with a perfect wireless connection. With wires you will do 10 times better than the best wireless throughput.

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It hasn't been my experience that when I'm not extracting video from my TiVo that it doesn't take about 3.5 - 4.0 GB for a 1 hour show at best quailty.

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